Roli Seaboard RISE

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
himalaya
KVRAF
5171 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:41 am

Pashkuli, with respect, you are totally lost.
I have here, a Seaboard GRAND, RISE 25 and 49, a Seaboard Block....all of which provide polyphonic pitch-bend on the GLIDE dimension. You must be a visitor from another dimension yourself. :D
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7653 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:48 am

Example of vibrato and pitch bend up many many semi-tones:
Check the 1:02 mark
https://youtu.be/W0nQkHAZlPk?t=62
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

cleverr1
KVRist
375 posts since 29 Nov, 2005

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:39 am
Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:24 am
cleverr1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 am
Mate,
Plug a rise or a block into midi-ox and push any key side to side and you'll see a load of pitch bend messages. Do this with a second key and you see a load of pitch bend messages or two separate channels. :wink:
I think you are talking about Vibrato that sends Pitch Bend Messages but never results in a Pitch Bend for let's say 4 "semitones".
Vibrato is very well implemented in Seaboard.
Pitch Bend... well, my friend, that is another story.
No. You can of course vibrato by bending slightly back and forth. If you want a 4 semitone pitch bend you simply glide over 4 semi-tones. There you go. A 4 semi-tone pitch bend. You are simply wrong. Go to a store and try it. Or just watch any of hundreds of videos on youtube about it.
Absolutely bang on!
Futhermore you can do this independently with more than one note in different directions.

Dammit, all this discussion has just made me buy another block. Nearly 4 octaves worth and in fits into a laptop case 8)

cleverr1
KVRist
375 posts since 29 Nov, 2005

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:55 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:39 am
Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:24 am
cleverr1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:06 am
Mate,
Plug a rise or a block into midi-ox and push any key side to side and you'll see a load of pitch bend messages. Do this with a second key and you see a load of pitch bend messages or two separate channels. :wink:
I think you are talking about Vibrato that sends Pitch Bend Messages but never results in a Pitch Bend for let's say 4 "semitones".
Vibrato is very well implemented in Seaboard.
Pitch Bend... well, my friend, that is another story.
No. You can of course vibrato by bending slightly back and forth. If you want a 4 semitone pitch bend you simply glide over 4 semi-tones. There you go. A 4 semi-tone pitch bend. You are simply wrong. Go to a store and try it. Or just watch any of hundreds of videos on youtube about it.
Absolutely bang on!
Futhermore you can do this independently with more than one note in different directions.

Dammit, all this discussion has just made me buy another block. Nearly 4 octaves worth and it fits into a laptop case 8)

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:58 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:48 am
Check the 1:02 mark
https://youtu.be/W0nQkHAZlPk?t=62
Did not see any Pitch Bend, it was even never written on the video as a technique, sorry. :(

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58656 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:59 am

bend sounds like eeeeeoooo
glide sounds like eeeeooooo

see, different! :hihi:

himalaya
KVRAF
5171 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:03 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:44 am
himalaya wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:03 am
GLIDE - Yes, you do bend the pitch with GLIDE. This shouldn't be such a mind-bending thing to understand...
Ok, I guess. Still, referring to Glide as a Pitch Bend is incorrect.
The note/pitch is under your finger (be it a key, button or fingertip size are on a surface).
Bending it (the note/pitch) should have nothing to do with gliding, sliding to another area/key/button (that would be something similar to Portamento).
Performing a Pitch Bend is different than performing a Glide, Slide or Pitch Wheel rotation.
It is fundamentally different. If you do not understand that, maybe a video with my explanation on my Pashkuli Keyboard would bring some more explanation.
'GLIDE' is an arbitrary term. Roli could have used 'BANANA' for the same description:
BANANA - polyphonic pitch-bend that allows you to create traditional pitch-bend, various glissandos and portamentos, or beautiful legato note transitions...all on the new BANANA dimension.

But they chose GLIDE, and GLIDE refers to the X-axis which by default controls pitch (but this can be re-assigned to anything). So it is a fact of our Seaboard-playing life: On a Seaboard the default GLIDE articulation controls pitch-bend and many of its related performance techniques.

Then, they chose 'SLIDE' to mean the Y-axis (in midi-land it is CC74).

Having said that, these terms are not as arbitrary as I'm making them out to be. There is a logic behind these names. Anyway.

PRESS came to mean the Z-axis, and refers to pressure, or more precisely, continuous pressure, very different from aftertouch. And so on....

Performing a Pitch Bend is different than performing a Glide, Slide or Pitch Wheel rotation.
And what happens to the pitch of a note in each case?

(and what is "Pitch Wheel rotation" ?)
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7653 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:10 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:58 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:48 am
Check the 1:02 mark
https://youtu.be/W0nQkHAZlPk?t=62
Did not see any Pitch Bend, it was even never written on the video as a technique, sorry. :(
If you did not see pitch bend at around 1:05 then like I said earlier, you are using words differently than everyone else. If you go to a grocery store and ask for a banana and they show you the yellow curvy fruit that is a banana and you insist that they are not bananas, it does not make them not bananas. You are just living in a different world where you use different words for things. This will make communication very difficult for you. I would suggest using the same words as other people. That way you can actually communicate with them.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

himalaya
KVRAF
5171 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:13 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:58 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:48 am
Check the 1:02 mark
https://youtu.be/W0nQkHAZlPk?t=62
Did not see any Pitch Bend, it was even never written on the video as a technique, sorry. :(
I saw it. At 1:05 the pitch-bend on the G note. First we see the vibrato articulation, and then we see a lovely glissando to A# (pitch-bend!). The performer then comes back on the top ribbon - another pitch-bend. Then, you can see all manner of pitch-bend techniques, from vibrato, slides, note-legatos, all done on this funky formant synth sound from Equator.
it was even never written on the video as a technique, sorry.
So if it was written 'GLIDE = pitch-bend', you'd finally come to understand, but because you had to rely on your ears, then it didn't happen? :D
This video shows the 5-Dimensions of Touch. The video is described as '5D Touch'. Why is this important? It's because there are no 5 Dimensions as such. So you could make another argument that ROLI are wrong here and that there are no five spacial dimensions... But, Roli describes this as '5 Dimensions of Touch'. One of them is named 'GLIDE', and this video shows you what can be achieved on the GLIDE dimension (in the default configuration, since as you know, GLIDE can be assigned to other parameters).
Pheew! This is heavy going! :D
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:40 pm

Pitch Bend is not a dimension, it is a technique of manipulating the pitch. Please, no need for marketing crap...
Here is a video on how I've done it on my keyboard. Also I have shown really basic Portamento, Pitch Wheel techniques. Slides seem pretty much redundant, so I dismissed those.

https://youtu.be/U4hvZUqqszg

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7653 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:59 pm

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:40 pm
Pitch Bend is not a dimension, it is a technique of manipulating the pitch. Please, no need for marketing crap...
Here is a video on how I've done it on my keyboard. Also I have shown really basic Portamento, Pitch Wheel techniques. Slides seem pretty much redundant, so I dismissed those.

https://youtu.be/U4hvZUqqszg
Nobody else shares your arbitrary distinctions because you made up your own definitions for these things. If you have one definition of something and everyone else has a different one, here's a hint: It probably isn't everyone else who's using the words wrong.

Everyone else here (and everywhere else I assure you) has the same definition of what pitch bend is, and you are talking complete nonsense. Everything you did that bent the pitch in that video is pitch bend. You are trying to claim that one thing you did to change the pitch was pitch bend and the rest were not. If you bend the pitch then it is pitch bend. By definition! That's what the flippin' words mean. Bending the pitch (a continuous change in pitch/frequency) can cause vibrato, portamento, gliassando and other pitch related effects. These are sub categories of pitch bend, which is the general term. Both in the real word and in the world of midi.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

himalaya
KVRAF
5171 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:20 pm

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:40 pm
Pitch Bend is not a dimension, it is a technique of manipulating the pitch. Please, no need for marketing crap...
No one is saying that pitch-bend is a dimension.
GLIDE is a dimension, a dimension of touch on the ROLI Seaboard.

Then, on the GLIDE dimension we can express various pitch-bend playing techniques.

In your video, every single thing you show, is centred around pitch-bends. You have not shown us anything new. You are not teaching us anything new. It's like, we are telling you exactly what you have shown us in the video, then you come here to negate it and argue against it, but in your own video you show exactly what we are talking about. This is some twisted logic going on here. A mind bending exercise! :D

From 0:31sec.....what you can do on your Pashkuli keyboard, is exactly what we can do on the Seaboard RISE, and it's what we have been telling you is possible on the RISE.

At this point, I'm completely lost as to what case you are trying to make.

Even in your 'portamento' example, you are performing a pitch-bend. Don't you?

Every time you change the pitch of a note during a performance, you get a pitch-bend. It doesn't matter what controller you use to achieve that. You can do a pitch-bend by using a mod pitch-wheel, a mod-stick, the X-axis on an MPE controller (what is called GLIDE on ROLI Seaboard), a ribbon like on the Kurzweil K2500, or the Yamaha CS80. It doesn't matter. Don't confuse the midi controller with the gesture/articulation.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19291 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:03 pm

There's just no reasoning with that guy. May as well give up because he'll never see the light. :D

Ploki
KVRian
1456 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:06 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:40 pm
Pitch Bend is not a dimension, it is a technique of manipulating the pitch. Please, no need for marketing crap...
Here is a video on how I've done it on my keyboard. Also I have shown really basic Portamento, Pitch Wheel techniques. Slides seem pretty much redundant, so I dismissed those.

https://youtu.be/U4hvZUqqszg
Okay I'll try to break this down as simple as possible.
5D touch by ROLI:
  • Strike: MIDI Message: Note ON with velocity. (How hard you hit a key)
  • Lift: MIDI Message: Note OFF with velocity. (How fast you release it)
  • Glide: MIDI Message: Pitch bend. This is the horizontal movement around the keyboard. Because pitchbend range is so large, a small back/forth movement results in a vibrato. When you slide from one tone to another, you do it with PITCHBEND, not PORTAMENTO. That means that if you don't lift your key, what gets recorded when you play is A SINGLE NOTE and a WHOLE. LOT. of pitchbend data (that is really annoying to edit).
  • Slide: MIDI Message: Control Change (default is 74), depending on your setting it can act as a springed wheel from center, or a mod wheel.
  • Press: MIDI Message: Channel Pressure. Effectively aftertouch, but ROLI uses channel pressure, because each note has its own channel anyway.
Every MIDI Message in MPE mode has its own MIDI Channel assigned. That means that max polyphony of ANY ROLI keyboard is 15. (one channel is control channel)

Portamento is a function of the synthesiser, not the controller.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19291 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Roli Seaboard RISE

Post Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:16 am

Ploki wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:06 am
Portamento is a function of the synthesiser, not the controller.
Correct!

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