E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
dellboy
KVRian
744 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:24 am

Rameses wrote: I rather would assume that you don't have any experience with Rack Units, because I have. Please stay at least reasonable with your presentation, because one thing being better than another one doesn't have anything to do with magic.
So how many rack units do you own ?

I guess as many as you can get under the bridge you live under.

Perhaps its the natural reverb under the bridge that makes your hardware digital modules sound better ?

Try not to get them wet, electricity and water are not good together. :lol:

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
26303 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:26 am

dellboy wrote:
Rameses wrote: I rather would assume that you don't have any experience with Rack Units, because I have. Please stay at least reasonable with your presentation, because one thing being better than another one doesn't have anything to do with magic.
So how many rack units do you own ?
Not many, I'd guess from his OP.
by Rameses; 10 Mar 2018 13:05 wrote: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080
I am considering to eventually get my first piece of hardware gear soon
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

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planetearth
KVRian
1406 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:25 am

tapper mike wrote:Considering all command stations and proteus family modules have z plane filtering.


Agreeing with Evil Dragon.....
I have / had an XL7 command station with the P2500 composer rom. Yep sounded much better than the DSF aftermarket libraries if nothing else than for the DAC. Mine sporked after an incident with coffee. I keep it around for the day when I can afford to replace it with an equivalent module / command station.
Just out of curiosity, for which ROMpler did you buy the DSF libraries? Was it Kontakt, Dimension, or something else, or was it for the Proteus VST?

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4435 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:52 am

EvilDragon wrote:Or extra colored, depending on the age of the unit. DACs weren't always perfect in the 90s, and much less so before that.
From the mid-80s onward, DACs used in professional gear were certainly not bad and in no way worse than those in consumer CD players, which were considered to be pretty transparent once sigma-deltas got going. And Sigma-deltas were common from the early 90s with very low non-linearity if you bought a Crystal or something like that. You might get some op amp interaction but I think it's more likely to be companding in the samples and other treatments (such as filters/EQ in the analogue stage to recover some high and low frequencies from heavily companded samples) to make playable instruments fit into a couple of MB of ROM that affects the sound more.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17168 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:28 am

Not necessarily always the case. Compare for example Korg X3 and X5(D). X5(D) is newer, they have pretty much the same ROM (save for extra 2 MB of samples on X5D, X5 has IDENTICAL ROM to X3), exactly the same sound generation engine and FX, yet X3 sounds better, fuller, etc.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4435 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:17 am

EvilDragon wrote:Not necessarily always the case. Compare for example Korg X3 and X5(D). X5(D) is newer, they have pretty much the same ROM (save for extra 2 MB of samples on X5D, X5 has IDENTICAL ROM to X3), exactly the same sound generation engine and FX, yet X3 sounds better, fuller, etc.
That's not inconsistent with some tweaking in the analogue stage to compensate for the compression/companding process Korg might have made to a later design - such as a stronger smiley-face EQ. Or with perhaps a more powerful amp stage so it works out a bit louder than the predecessor.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17168 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:44 am

Nope, as mentioned X3 and X5 are exactly the same ROM, exactly the same engine, exactly the same FX. Just different package (X5 is smaller and has less patch memory). Loudness-wise both are much the same. DACs are not the same, that's all. Also companding is very much a Roland thing, Korg just used compression, well at least to my knowledge.

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4435 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:24 pm

The service manuals for the X3, X5 and the X5D all state the DAC is a Burr Brown (now TI) PCM69AU - an 18bit DAC that's a bit better than the 16bit PCM56 that was in the M1.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17168 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:42 pm

Well, they definitely sound different side by side. When I did this test some time back, I had them set up like that and volume matched and everything. Same patches, same parameter values, different sound. So it might not be DACs directly, but something else in the output section. It's not EQ, though, that much is apparent. Could also be component tolerances on circuitry around DACs, or something...

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Gamma-UT
KVRAF
4435 posts since 8 Jun, 2009 from UK

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:48 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Well, they definitely sound different side by side. When I did this test some time back, I had them set up like that and volume matched and everything. Same patches, same parameter values, different sound. So it might not be DACs directly, but something else in the output section. It's not EQ, though, that much is apparent.
I'm not disputing that they sound different. I'm saying it's highly possible that Korg (along with other vendors) made successive tweaks to their sample base and may well have compensated for artefacts they introduced by making compensatory changes in the analogue output stage – which would be effectively a static EQ or at the very least a change to the cutoff profile of the low-pass anti-imaging filter. And that the DAC is last place you are going to hear much of a change, which seems to be confirmed by the use of the same part across several generations that sound different.

Also, component tolerances: people just don't design this gear that badly, at least not by that point in time. If they did, individual units within the same family would sound different.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17168 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:53 pm

Samples themselves, when played raw, do sound the same between the two (and those 6 MB of ROM are identical in all AI2 synths except 01/W which has things at different SR and not as heavily compressed). Even the loop point bug for a particular Choir sample carried over through all AI2 synths, so no, they didn't modify their base sampleset in any way... :) It's when you start playing more voices the differences start becoming more apparent.
Gamma-UT wrote:Also, component tolerances: people just don't design this gear that badly, at least not by that point in time. If they did, individual units within the same family would sound different.
Well, that's a good point.

himalaya
KVRAF
4859 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:32 pm

It's all explained in the names.

Basically, the X5 was five times different to the X3, which was three times different to M1.
The M1 tried to pull a fast one on the D50, which itself was trying to muscle in on the DX7.
The K2000 had them all huddled into a corner!
Spare a thought for the VFX though....It just Fizmo'ed out. Just like that.
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17168 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:39 pm

Haha. :D

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Rameses
KVRist
130 posts since 9 Mar, 2018 from Frankfurt am Main, Germany

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:51 pm

dellboy wrote:
Rameses wrote: I rather would assume that you don't have any experience with Rack Units, because I have. Please stay at least reasonable with your presentation, because one thing being better than another one doesn't have anything to do with magic.
So how many rack units do you own ?

I guess as many as you can get under the bridge you live under.

Perhaps its the natural reverb under the bridge that makes your hardware digital modules sound better ?

Try not to get them wet, electricity and water are not good together. :lol:
No trolling or ad hominem, thank you. This is a serious discussion.
For DISCOGRAPHY, see К Ɱ Ԏ Ꮇ Ꮩ Ꭶ Ꭵ Ꮳ

mike_the_ranger
KVRist
107 posts since 16 Feb, 2017

Re: E-Mu Morpheus vs. Roland JV-2080

Post Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:52 pm

Rameses wrote:This is a serious discussion.
no

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