What hardware is replacable by vst and which isn't?

[zerocrossing]

That all depends on how obsessed you are with having an exact duplicate of a particular sound and a particular workflow. If you're playing live, or releasing your music for distribution, your audience will probably never notice the difference in the sound, and they probably couldn't care less about what your particular workflow is. That is, unless your workflow is simply to roll up to the gig and press "play" on a sequencer and guzzle beer till your set is finished. They might feel a little underwhelmed by something that simple.

Personally, I'm far more concerned about getting a sound I really like, rather than duplicating every nuance of a particular instrument, while using another instrument. I'm pretty flexible.

I would definitely like to have at least one excellent MIDI controller though. That's something a VSTi can't replace.

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I think a huge part of why some people dismiss software is because they are expecting it to be exact, if it’s an emulation, or reminiscent of something they know, it it’s not. They spend a lot of time looking for what a plugin isn’t instead of looking at what it is.

Now, that’s not saying that every software synth is awesome in all ways. I’ve demoed many a mediocre plugin. Hardware synths that once amazed me turned out to be somewhat meh upon reacquaintance. It really depends on what you’re trying to do and where you are with your tastes.

In the end, it’s best to judge any instrument, hardware or software, for what it is.

[kritikon]

Though I'm turning my back on some of my old h/w, I have to say I'm hugely impressed by what's happening in the analogue hw world right now. Behringer used to cop for a lot of flack, some of it deserved, some not (I've still got some old Behringer outboard that is surprisingly sturdy and reliable...more so than some esoteric expensive gear. Their comps, gates etc are vanilla, but cheap as and do exactly what they should for the price). But it's taken people like Behringer to churn out fairly decent synths at unbelievable prices to stimulate use of analogue hw. Again some of it is vanilla, but there are things some of their synths do that would take you a long time to set up in sw.

And there's another thing. Just simple ease of use, and tweaking/playing. I can garauntee that to get a fluid morphing synth riff...I can do it in sw but it will take me hours to get what I'm really happy with. Whereas any decent hw analogue, I'll just set up the midi pattern, hit record and twiddle knobs and go off inside my head somwhere...and get 2 minutes-worth of useable stuff I simply cut and paste. Job done, had fun. I find that tedious to do in s/w. But when I want a bassline, pads, some standard stabs, some basic but structural stuff...sw is great. Same for all the FX and the mixing etc. When you twiddle a few knobs on a decent analogue synth, it often takes you places unexpectedly. I NEVER get that with VSTi's...it takes too much rigid setting up etc. If I have a plan sw gets me there. Happy accidents are almost alway on an analogue.
I think I'll save some cash and go on a big binge for some of these interesting cheap analogues. One of those Behringer ones...a demo had it using audio rate modulation, and it instantly set it apart from anything digital. I thought the whole demo was uninspiring when it played boings and blips and standard stuff, then they went nuclear with high speed lfos...bingo! Doesn't stop me using good sw for 85% of my other musical needs though. TBH I'm surprised at the sudden shift to analogue again. Didn't think it could done so cheaply. And it's great for all of us...we can all access this now, whereas it used to be an expensive game. I can now set up a decent studio with sw AND hw for a fraction of the price. When I started, it took me 10s of 1000s to get a decent studio set up.

[BBFG#]

What hardware is replaceable by vst and which isn't?

To begin with what isn't, your computer, interface, and controller.
VSTs require hardware to run on.

[telecode]

Behringer is cheap shit that sounds okay. It's priced fairly though. You can totally hear and feel the difference in quality and sound when you try out a Moog in a store next to a Behringer. (You just need the extra mulla to buy it).

[pdxindy]

You’re right, especially about things like cross modulation. Any audio rate modulation, really. I mean, some get pretty good, but not amazing, and the ones that are pretty good do use a lot of CPU to get there. So, my hunch is, we’re on the way to replacing that kind of thing too. We just need another generation or two of faster CPUs that get us there.

But, I’ll also say that I don’t hear a lot of crazy cross mod stuff in most music. Most synth sounds are pretty tame and people are happy with them, so there’s a good chance that you may not even care about things like that.

One does not have to do a lot of crazy cross modulation to hear the benefit. Good Osc sync and a bit of additional audio rate modulation can give such a beautiful expressive sound.

And the other thing about analog hardware... it is forgiving... you can play it realtime, tweak the sound and it is not going to suddenly have some harsh digital artifact. It also generally has enough headroom and natural saturation so if in the moment you want to turn it up a bit, or open the filter a bit you are not bumping into sudden digital harshness.

I think most sounds can be pretty effectively duplicated but it takes more premeditation and planning.

All that is to say I would feel more confident standing on stage and tweaking a Moog than doing the similar thing with software.

[zerocrossing]

You’re right, especially about things like cross modulation. Any audio rate modulation, really. I mean, some get pretty good, but not amazing, and the ones that are pretty good do use a lot of CPU to get there. So, my hunch is, we’re on the way to replacing that kind of thing too. We just need another generation or two of faster CPUs that get us there.

But, I’ll also say that I don’t hear a lot of crazy cross mod stuff in most music. Most synth sounds are pretty tame and people are happy with them, so there’s a good chance that you may not even care about things like that.

One does not have to do a lot of crazy cross modulation to hear the benefit. Good Osc sync and a bit of additional audio rate modulation can give such a beautiful expressive sound.

I agree, but I think that for most people they get acceptable results from something like Diva and they really don’t care about getting much better. I’m not among them, but I think I’m in the minority.

And the other thing about analog hardware... it is forgiving... you can play it realtime, tweak the sound and it is not going to suddenly have some harsh digital artifact. It also generally has enough headroom and natural saturation so if in the moment you want to turn it up a bit, or open the filter a bit you are not bumping into sudden digital harshness.

I think this isn’t true any more. Instruments like RePro, Dune 3, Reaktor Blocks (if run at 88.2 or 96 kHz) and Legend do a fine job. Massive X is great as well. I’m sure there are more but those are the ones that seem to always lead to good results, though I do admit that you can get in trouble with distortion effects if you are not careful.

I think most sounds can be pretty effectively duplicated but it takes more premeditation and planning.

I think you are right that the ITB workflow can lead you to different places in compared to a hardware centric workflow, that’s for sure. I think when you’re intimate with your tools, it doesn’t quite matter as much.

All that is to say I would feel more confident standing on stage and tweaking a Moog than doing the similar thing with software.

Yeah... I can’t really speak to that. It’s funny, I started using software instruments and effects as a plan to create a laptop live-rig. I was really sick of lugging tons of gear around and spending hours of setup and breakdown time to do a 20-60 minute show. I’m not really that much of a live knob tweaker, anyway, so it worked reasonably well. All my tweaking happens via aftertouch, expression pedal and velocity. Some mod wheel. Anyway, the weekly gig I had in a small club in SF died when they cancelled that night. I’m still confused as why they did that... it was a downtempo night on a Monday in a bar that would otherwise be pretty empty and my friends and I kept it reasonably full and we’re all not afraid to drink a bit. Not surprising, the bar went under a while later. I figured that my friend who ran the night would find another location and call me back up... but I think she moved on to other things... and so did I. I just found that I didn’t really miss it... or care. I was just as happy spending an afternoon alone in my studio. So that was that. I’m not sure what I’d use if I started live shows again... I think I’d start with a laptop/Maschine rig again. Laptop, Maschine, Rise 49, FCB1010, Kemper, guitar and bass and that’d be that. Aside from the guitars they’d all fit in a modest size duffle and be set up in about 10 minutes.

[Tj Shredder]

I would definitely like to have at least one excellent MIDI controller though. That's something a VSTi can't.

Get a LinnStrument as controller. Better than twiddling knobs for sure, add a bite and breath controller and a Touché to be in heaven. Of course this would not make sense without some MPE VStis...

[pdxindy]

One does not have to do a lot of crazy cross modulation to hear the benefit. Good Osc sync and a bit of additional audio rate modulation can give such a beautiful expressive sound.

I agree, but I think that for most people they get acceptable results from something like Diva and they really don’t care about getting much better. I’m not among them, but I think I’m in the minority.

And the other thing about analog hardware... it is forgiving... you can play it realtime, tweak the sound and it is not going to suddenly have some harsh digital artifact. It also generally has enough headroom and natural saturation so if in the moment you want to turn it up a bit, or open the filter a bit you are not bumping into sudden digital harshness.

I think this isn’t true any more. Instruments like RePro, Dune 3, Reaktor Blocks (if run at 88.2 or 96 kHz) and Legend do a fine job. Massive X is great as well. I’m sure there are more but those are the ones that seem to always lead to good results, though I do admit that you can get in trouble with distortion effects if you are not careful.

It might well be so that most people are happy enough with the acceptable results of software.

Sitting here with the Matriarch the past few days, the gap is still obvious to me. I am playing a lead sound right now that is using 3 Osc's. 2 of the Osc's are feeding the filters and the 3rd (3 octaves up and synced to Osc1) is modulating filter cutoff.

The attack is so strong, sharp and clear. Software doesn't quite capture that. The FilterFM plus Sync creates a kind of crying sound that is still utterly coherent. Even the best software gets a touch of mushiness with such settings.

Then each note has some beautiful variations. One note has a bit more of that lovely tearing sync quality... another a bit of grinding... nothing too obtrusive or obvious, but it is there in every note making it sound alive! Even the best software still has a dull repetitiveness in comparison (even with lots of modulations set up). And then there is the hands on immediacy!

Of course none of that may matter to lots of people and the ability of software to save presets, be easily automated, polyphony, etc. is huge. Plus I can have a dozen of my favorites in the laptop, hop in a car or on a plane and go anywhere with them!

For the sheer sonic beauty of playing in realtime in my quiet studio, software does not compare to the Matriarch.

[Forgotten]

One thing I think is difficult to reproduce with plugins is analog effects pedals. For example, something like germanium based fuzz pedals - it can sound exactly right when a modern reproduction of hardware is used, but no software fuzz pedals I have used sound anywhere near as good. Ditto with noisy analog flangers - I just haven’t found anything that comes close.

[Tj Shredder]

Ditto with noisy analog flangers - I just haven’t found anything that comes close.

You need to feed it with noise as well...; - )

[Forgotten]

Ditto with noisy analog flangers - I just haven’t found anything that comes close.

You need to feed it with noise as well...; - )

I’d probably have to sample that noise from a hardware flanger to get that right, so...

[MeneerJansen]

What hardware is replaceable by vst and which isn't?

To begin with what isn't, your computer, interface, and controller.
VSTs require hardware to run on.

That might seem a trivial remark, but it's actually one of the most important reasons why hardware is not replaceable by VST's. If you hate jamming or producing music with a computer you'll have to use real hardware.

[...] And there's another thing. Just simple ease of use, and tweaking/playing. I can garauntee that to get a fluid morphing synth riff...I can do it in sw but it will take me hours to get what I'm really happy with. Whereas any decent hw analogue, I'll just set up the midi pattern, hit record and twiddle knobs and go off inside my head somwhere...and get 2 minutes-worth of useable stuff I simply cut and paste. Job done, had fun. I find that tedious to do in s/w. But when I want a bassline, pads, some standard stabs, some basic but structural stuff...sw is great. Same for all the FX and the mixing etc. When you twiddle a few knobs on a decent analogue synth, it often takes you places unexpectedly. I NEVER get that with VSTi's...it takes too much rigid setting up etc. [...]

I agree with you. My main hobby is not making/producing music. I love to listen to music. Never had the talent or patience to learn how to play an actual instrument. A few years ago I installed a VST of one of the most illusive and iconic synths I know: the VCS3 (I'm a big Pink Floyd fan). It fascinated me that it was possible to emulate what I thought to be complicated stuff on a humble cheap computer. However, noodling and fidling with it was no fun. I just couldn't understand why. It's immensely frustrating to me to turn knobs w/ a mouse. Completely takes the fun out of experimenting.

Then I bought a Midi keyboard w/ a lot of knobs (16) to map those to the Minimoog VST that I liked. Still: no fun. Why? Because even a midi device w/ a lot of knobs doesn't have enough knobs to map everything. There's the out-of-production Beghinger BCR2000, but I'm afraid that the lay-out might not be my thing... Doesn't match the lay-out/work flow of a synth.

Anyway, since nowadays certain synths are relatively cheap (like you said) I bought one. Boy, what a relief. I liked it from day one. Y'all are not going to like this this but it's battery operated and I can play it on my couch in front of the TV when I'm bored during commercial breaks. I love it! I bought a few of those cheap ones the last few years. Like I said: I can't really play if my life depended on it. I just try to make some nice sounding patches, program the odd sequence and turn knobs. I bother nobody w/ it and it makes me happy.

I can understand however, if you don't want to waste time fiddling w/ knobs and if you can actually play the piano, that hardware might not have added value over a VST. That's why I'm not a big lover of the DX7: impossible to program so every body uses one of its presets. Another pro of VST's is that they're easier if you have a lot of instruments. Hardware fills up your room pretty darn fast. And connecting one you haven't used for a while can be pretty darn complicated. You have to disconnect another synth, the stombox you connected to it, etc. Might be the reason why the cheap Beh. synths are more popular than professional gear: the non-professionals like me love 'm. Sometimes a VST is 50% of the cost of a clone.

Another pro of most hardware for me is that they are less complicated than their VST counterparts. Software developers seem not to be able to restrain themselves from adding a lot of complicated stuff that wasn't on the original. Just looking at the UI of some VTS's makes me loose heart to start to make a patch on 'm.

To make a long story short, I think that professional music producers use VST's, people who gig use (expensive) hardware and amateurs who can't play - like me - use cheap hardware clones.

[Distorted Horizon]

I heard moog one live.. That is one synth that I've never heard any softsynth that would be even close.

[david.beholder]

I heard moog one live.. That is one synth that I've never heard any softsynth that would be even close.

I call MythBusters on this.

[Friendly Noise]

I would say, the combination of a analog sound processed with analog saturation is still not 100% available ITB. Maybe in the future.
This is Elektron Analog Rytm + Xaoc Tallin:
http://youtu.be/6jEn5NhJbgQ
Apologies for self promotion, but lots of videos on my channel use heavy distortion and prove my point.