New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:20 am

SLiC wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:34 am
The LinnStrument was the first MPE controller I tried as I am primarily a guitarist so thought I would instantly transfer my guitar chops to the synth.
Well, that is an "user error". I think you can pretty much change the cell-grid layout to whatever configuration (scale, sequence) you want. It is not even close to a guitar.
The best way I have found to use guitar as a MIDI controller is to have a regular guitar equipped with multi-out guitar pickups such as CycFi "Nu 2" series. Not cheap, as you will have to buy the special cable (drill your guitar to suit the jack-socket) for it, and the special hardware unit (acts as a DI-box as well) that splits the audio signals. Then you would need at least 6 audio-inputs audio interface and 6 instances of Jam Origin MIDI Guitar plugin. Works great, but it is not cheap and the overall latency might cross the 6~7 ms line.

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Hink
Rad Grandad
30287 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:06 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:20 am
SLiC wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:34 am
The LinnStrument was the first MPE controller I tried as I am primarily a guitarist so thought I would instantly transfer my guitar chops to the synth.
Well, that is an "user error". I think you can pretty much change the cell-grid layout to whatever configuration (scale, sequence) you want. It is not even close to a guitar.
The best way I have found to use guitar as a MIDI controller is to have a regular guitar equipped with multi-out guitar pickups such as CycFi "Nu 2" series. Not cheap, as you will have to buy the special cable (drill your guitar to suit the jack-socket) for it, and the special hardware unit (acts as a DI-box as well) that splits the audio signals. Then you would need at least 6 audio-inputs audio interface and 6 instances of Jam Origin MIDI Guitar plugin. Works great, but it is not cheap and the overall latency might cross the 6~7 ms line.

nope
The MIDI Module converts control voltages (CV) from the guitar to MIDI. The basic firmware supports up to 6 analog and 7 digital inputs. The Multichannel Guitar Input (see Basic Kit) can carry up to seven control voltages or switches. Some of the back panel 1/4″ jacks may also be repurposed to carry additional control voltages or switches. The MIDI output is sent through a standard 5-pin DIN connector at the back panel.

Note: Please do not be confused with MIDI control and MIDI conversion. The MIDI module does not do any pitch tracking and MIDI conversion of the notes.
https://www.cycfi.com/product/midi-module/
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:03 am

yep
That is why I use Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar software and not the MIDI module (which does not do any MIDI to Audio conversion).

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Hink
Rad Grandad
30287 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:19 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:03 am
yep
That is why I use Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar software and not the MIDI module (which does not do any MIDI to Audio conversion).

Seriously, you want to equip a guitar with these pick ups and then use real time audio to midi conversion software?


State-of-the-Art
Audio Recognition

Our audio recognition and transcription technology is currently 8 years under development (patent pending). It is truly unique and the Worlds first low-latency polyphonic audio transcription solution. Its currently being tested by thousands of beta testers.

We do not claim our audio tracking is perfect. No real-time audio tracking will ever be. There will always be a slight latency (zero latency means detecting a note before it was played) and what count as an onset in one playing style is a spurious note in another. Please evaluate our products freely and without technical limitations before purchasing.
https://www.jamorigin.com/technology/
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:24 am

See, Hink
MIDI guitars are not novelty in the tech audio. Remember SynthAxe (from the 80s)? I would love to see a modern reincarnation of it, but it will still be quite expensive. So, multi-pickups and audio + software conversion to MIDI is the cheaper alternative for now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqdVQ9VdoAg

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Hink
Rad Grandad
30287 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:40 am

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:24 am
See, Hink
MIDI guitars are not novelty in the tech audio. Remember SynthAxe (from the 80s)? I would love to see a modern reincarnation of it, but it will still be quite expensive. So, multi-pickups and audio + software conversion to MIDI is the cheaper alternative for now.

why the condescending to tone to start? (from the 80's :lol: You assume I dont know what the synthaxe was? :lol:

How about a fishman triple play or the gk3 from roland? You know roland has been perfecting midi pups for their guitar synths for over 20 years right?

https://www.sweetwater.com/c593--MIDI_G ... nd_Pickups

there are m ore options than spending a lot on hitech pups just to use audio to midi tracking software that even the company had to put in a disclaimer that is not perfect. That just seems like perhaps one is making this up with the help of google as they go along :shrug:
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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vurt
addled muppet weed
57272 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:48 am

skip to about 5 mins.
https://youtu.be/jTMa6WOV6dU

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:03 am

*offtopic*
There was nothing condescending in my previous comment. :?
MIDI pickups are fine but not suitable for extended range guitars, basses, other instruments. Not cheaper as well, just for a MIDI functionality for standard guitars (especially Roland's synth-processor for the purpose with the adaptor). Fishman's also rely on software as well, so... to me having the freedom to position your pickups to any sound source (strings in this case, not only for guitars) and the freedom to connect them in whatever configuration you want, plus separate audio channels for each pickup, is much more flexible option. Yes, that would require at least 6 input audio-interface and is not cheap.
Only 15 frets for the Jammy, not suitable for guitar solos... yes, I know we could probably raise up the octave, but it won't be the neck area where solos were meant to be played.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
57272 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:43 am

you can easily adapt to playing at different parts of the neck.
easier than learning a whole new instrument id imagine ;)

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:14 am

*offtopic*
Learning a new instrument is not easy indeed. I had no major problems learning guitar, drums or their close relatives (percussion and bass). Piano has always been a problem. Can not image what a dedication and persistence it takes to learn sax or clarinet, trumpet. Never even dared to take one of those and even try it (too difficult for me).
Always wanted to learn piano though... and never did (which is a shame).

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
30287 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:39 pm

Pashkuli wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:03 am
*offtopic*
There was nothing condescending in my previous comment. :?
MIDI pickups are fine but not suitable for extended range guitars, basses, other instruments. Not cheaper as well, just for a MIDI functionality for standard guitars (especially Roland's synth-processor for the purpose with the adaptor). Fishman's also rely on software as well, so... to me having the freedom to position your pickups to any sound source (strings in this case, not only for guitars) and the freedom to connect them in whatever configuration you want, plus separate audio channels for each pickup, is much more flexible option. Yes, that would require at least 6 input audio-interface and is not cheap.
Only 15 frets for the Jammy, not suitable for guitar solos... yes, I know we could probably raise up the octave, but it won't be the neck area where solos were meant to be played.
1. Not talking about audio...yes those pick ups are for audio...not midi..I imagine those pups have a great place for audio but even they say its not for tracking

2. Fishman does not use 3rd party tracking software, they wrote the spftware for their pickups.

3. What difference does extended range make in recording, you cant possibly tell me these pick ups and the tracking software is good for live.

4. you see Hink was extremely condescending (as if I have no clue and you must educate me, this is a common posturing tactic) and on par with other behaviors that other members have reported and complained about...so much so that you were asked to stay out of a different thread.

You said the best way you have found (or close to it, on my mobile)...is it possible for you to demonstrate how this is better...a video of it working would be great.

You said you had to cut holes in you guitar, note not so with dedicated midi pups...and I honestly think dedicated pups by these companies who are major players and major innovators might be better at tracking midi than a work around using 3rd party software with hitech audio pups...software that states on its front page it isnt perfect...just sayin.

I and others might actually know what we are talking about, it might help if you talk to people and not attempting to talk down to people or at them. Thats when people get upset and then the bickering starts.
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

SLiC
KVRAF
4385 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:55 pm

You don’t need any hardware at all for midi guitar....
https://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar-old/
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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Pashkuli
KVRist
159 posts since 9 Sep, 2019

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:31 pm

Hink wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:39 pm
4. you see Hink was extremely condescending (as if I have no clue and you must educate me, this is a common posturing tactic) and on par with other behaviors that other members have reported and complained about.
Different connotations, I guess, for the same expression. I do not see any "talking downs" or "condescendings". This is a huge off-topic and we are wasting the time for others having to scroll down and cringe. Pickups, audio-to-midi is not the subject here at all. Audio to MIDI is a huge technical endeavour and I have nothing in relations to CyCfi or their products, nor to Jam Origin. I just happen to have bought some of their stuff. Plus, I think MIDI should have died long ago in favour to OSC (resolution data, with only integers for MIDI, which is not ideal for poly-functions like velocity, dynamics, after-touch, scanning for data change, etc.).

deastman
KVRAF
7310 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:52 pm

I haven’t tried it, but this looks very promising for guitar or bass midi control:
https://industrialradio.com.au/

Or the Keith McMillen StringPort 2, if they ever actually manage to bring it to market.

Really enjoying this discussion about the new Expressive E Osmose!
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

SLiC
KVRAF
4385 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose

Post Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:02 pm

It’s an interesting thread considering the Osmose isn’t out for at least another seven month ;-) I wonder if this thread will still be bouncing around then!
i7 Win 10 PC+ Surface, BWS V3, StudioOne 4, Cubase 10, Live 9 suite, X32 Desk. , DM12, Odyssey, P8, Virus TI, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, Heat, Digitone, Deluge, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

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