Disappointment in hardware synths

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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BONES
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9558 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:40 pm

Pictus wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:33 pm
Maybe the best demo...
Image
Best demo of what? How bad people had it in the 1970s? There is no movement to this at all. No variation from velocity or after-touch or even a bit of Mod Wheel. It's flat and boring in the extreme. Note also that he used plugins within Logic to make it sound better. Seriously, if that was the best I could manage in 2020, I'd have given the game away 30 years ago.
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zerocrossing
KVRAF
9980 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:03 pm

BONES wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:40 pm
Best demo of what? How bad people had it in the 1970s?
Man, you must wake up every day and say, “I wonder how I can make myself seem even more close minded than yesterday?” Or is your mind actually closing?

The Neutron isn’t for me, but the right CV control and you could make that thing be as expressive as any instrument ever, hardware or software. You might not know this, but there is more than one way to make expressive music. Hell, even a harpsichord can elicit emotion from an audience. Here’s a guy who hangs out on GearSlutz with a couple of his favorite instruments, a “70s” era synth called the Jupiter 4 and it’s cousin the Promars. That man squeezes out quite a bit of expression from those horrible relics.

https://youtu.be/9c8a8ybAAxw

https://youtu.be/ACw8LKFsOuE

I’d like to see you post something with that much nuance and expression.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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BONES
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9558 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:07 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:03 pm
Man, you must wake up every day and say, “I wonder how I can make myself seem even more close minded than yesterday?” Or is your mind actually closing?

The Neutron isn’t for me, but the right CV control and you could make that thing be as expressive as any instrument ever, hardware or software.
Did you even bother to listen to the piece? There is no expression, it is just like it would have been if recorded in 1979 on a Minimoog or ARP Axxe or something. So before you start throwing labels around, you might get your own house in order and understand that my comment was specific, not general.
Here’s a guy who hangs out on GearSlutz with a couple of his favorite instruments, a “70s” era synth called the Jupiter 4 and it’s cousin the Promars. That man squeezes out quite a bit of expression from those horrible relics.
The first piece sounds like the sort of garbage I used to make on a hung-over Sunday morning in 1984, using my DX 9 and a spring reverb. It was very relaxing to do it but not something I'd ever have considered worth sharing.

The second one also reminds of the days before I could afford a decent set-up, when I just had to make do with what I had. Again, nothing I'd ever want to share.

Moreover, if things hadn't moved on considerably since those days, I am pretty sure I'd have got bored to death with it and stopped doing it 30 years ago. I don't look back fondly on those days at all. Quite the opposite, my memories of that time are mostly of frustration.
I’d like to see you post something with that much nuance and expression.
All you need to do is hold down any key with the default preset you get when you load up Aparillo. The nuance and expression is baked in.
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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3468 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:23 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:07 pm

nothing I'd ever want to share.
Tbh I'm not too impressed about anything you have shared :hihi:

Kr3eM
KVRist
478 posts since 1 Sep, 2007

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:12 am

Distorted Horizon wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:23 pm
BONES wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:07 pm

nothing I'd ever want to share.
Tbh I'm not too impressed about anything you have shared :hihi:
Image

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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3468 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:31 am

The face of Bones after finding expression :hihi:
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9558 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:26 pm

Distorted Horizon wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:23 pm
Tbh I'm not too impressed about anything you have shared :hihi:
Serious question - why do you dickheads find it so hard to stay on topic? Why do you have to get your neck in a knot every time someone challenges anything you say? That's how 10 year-olds behave, not grown men and women. zerocrossing's rant is the best example but your later stupidity isn't far behind. Just stay on topic, FFS.
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goldenanalog
KVRAF
1914 posts since 7 Dec, 2005 from somewhere between analog and digital

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:59 pm

Switched on Bach was just a novelty, like Tiny Tim's Tiptoe Through the Tulips or Joe Dolce's Shaddup You Face.
Factually incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-On_Bach

"Switched-On Bach reached number 10 on the US Billboard 200 chart and topped the Billboard Classical Albums chart from 1969 to 1972. By June 1974, it had sold over one million copies, and in 1986 became the second classical album to be certified platinum. In 1970, it won Grammy Awards for Best Classical Album, Best Classical Performance – Instrumental Soloist or Soloists (With or Without Orchestra), and Best Engineered Classical Recording.[1]"

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toonertik
KVRAF
2297 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:02 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:07 pm
I don't look back fondly on those days at all. Quite the opposite, my memories of that time are mostly of frustration.
I imagine you'll also be looking back to all you're KVR days feeling the same...


Oh wait...


you already do... :lol:

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9558 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:01 pm

Not at all. I pick up plenty around here and it's not like it's the only place I have to deal with idiots. They are everywhere.
goldenanalog wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:59 pm
Switched on Bach was just a novelty, like Tiny Tim's Tiptoe Through the Tulips or Joe Dolce's Shaddup You Face.
"Switched-On Bach reached number 10 on the US Billboard 200 chart and topped the Billboard Classical Albums chart from 1969 to 1972. By June 1974, it had sold over one million copies, and in 1986 became the second classical album to be certified platinum. In 1970, it won Grammy Awards for Best Classical Album, Best Classical Performance – Instrumental Soloist or Soloists (With or Without Orchestra), and Best Engineered Classical Recording.[1]"
Shaddup You Face reached no. 1 in the UK, Australia, Germany, France, Fiji, Puerto Rico, Quebec, Austria, New Zealand and Switzerland. According to Wikipedia it was a "multi-million" seller. That doesn't magically make the song worthy in any way. Like Switched on Bach, it sold for its novelty value, not for any artistic or technical merit it may have had.
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JoeCat
KVRian
1411 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:28 pm

goldenanalog wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:59 pm
Switched on Bach was just a novelty, like Tiny Tim's Tiptoe Through the Tulips or Joe Dolce's Shaddup You Face.
Factually incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-On_Bach

"Switched-On Bach reached number 10 on the US Billboard 200 chart and topped the Billboard Classical Albums chart from 1969 to 1972. By June 1974, it had sold over one million copies, and in 1986 became the second classical album to be certified platinum. In 1970, it won Grammy Awards for Best Classical Album, Best Classical Performance – Instrumental Soloist or Soloists (With or Without Orchestra), and Best Engineered Classical Recording.[1]"
Strictly speaking (and by definition), I'd argue it was a novelty - it was new and unique. In the context of Bone's quote, it was certainly more popular and had more staying power than the other examples, but it really didn't herald a new path in classical and maybe all music. It was one of the first large-scale works of electronic music (the first?), and at the time, people probably thought it signaled a change that never came about - that of generally replacing acoustic instruments with synthetic counterparts. It didn't really happen that way. People are reproducing music now using floppy drives and (brilliantly) a door stop, but none of those are going to be game-changing. The influence of electronics and samples are everywhere, but no one is clamoring for a recording of the Goldberg Variations on a Prophet.

I'm of two minds - experimentally, I'm fine using a synth without presets 'cause I do like experimenting, setting boundaries, etc. I'm also somewhat nostalgic for what I couldn't afford in the 70s, 80s, etc. (i.e. knobby synths!). Sometimes something good comes along from the experimental work (in and out of "the box" - I'm working on something currently that may end up in a demo track for a publisher - but usually it's for me and sometimes my kids - adults who are mostly bored by it lol.

When I'm doing the "real" work though - especially with my band, and for production music - it's best tool for the job, which is quite honestly almost never hardware. The exceptions are tools that put me in the mind of a different workflow (like my Digitakt - nothing I couldn't do in a DAW but the unique workflow and button-mashing help me come up with new ideas), and gigging - which without presets would be batsh*t crazy (given that we currently use an Ultranova - we'd play maybe two songs an hour if that were the case).

I'll also drop an example (though not regarding synths) where I miss hardware: Our guitarist records in the box now, and I miss the good controlled feedback of his tube amp. To be fair though - there're apps for that too, and I'll probably use them soon.

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JoeCat
KVRian
1411 posts since 19 May, 2011 from North Carolina

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:42 pm

Also - having grown up at the time, I'd argue this was the more influential piece of Moog music in the early 70s, though I'm sure Stan Free was influenced by Carlos' work - which I don't mean to denigrate - it just didn't really create it's own musical movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK3ZP6frAMc

And oddly THIS was maybe the first track to use a Moog ('67 - on the album Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd. a great album - Monkees or not; there was talent all over this thing; besides the hits, "What am I Doing Hangin' Round" was one of the first televised country rock songs).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCWRjWOowkc

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Forgotten
KVRAF
10119 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:55 pm

I think the Monkees track is often cited as the first use of a Moog, but the Doors album Strange Days beat it by about a month. It just can’t really be heard on Strange Days as it was mostly used to process other audio.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9558 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:30 pm

The real breakthrough for electronic music, though, when it became an accepted way of doing things, would have to be this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxCqZHSxd2E
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Distorted Horizon
KVRAF
3468 posts since 17 Jan, 2017 from Planet of cats

Re: Disappointment in hardware synths

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:50 am

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