Best MPE controller?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:05 pm

Why? Is someone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to read it? Why don't you just go away if you have no interest in the discussion?
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KVRAF
1752 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:12 pm

I have no idea if it's best as it's also the only one I own, but I am enjoying the Joue Pro. I have played both the Sensel Morph and Seaboard Block. I'd definitely take the Joue Pro over the Morph simply because it's easier on the fingers, but I did quite like the feel of the Block. I should note that I don't really use the MPE, just the expressive capabilities.

KVRist
140 posts since 12 Mar, 2011

Post Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:15 am

I've been using linnstrument for a while and love it. Most of my sound sources are mono hardware; I've been trying the MPE on softsynth vital and surge.
Even with mono synths linnstrument is really great because of how you can pitchbend notes. For me its very close to perfect midi controller :)

Sequencing with ableton live.
I got hydrasynth on the way which is poly synth and supports MPE.

KVRAF
1888 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from Timisoara, Romania

Post Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:18 am

+1 for Sensel Morph.
good price - very versatile.
lots of fun for me.

KVRist
87 posts since 18 Dec, 2018

Post Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:39 am

Linnstrument best for me as a stringed-things player, patterns in 4ths or 5ths familiar.
Sensal Morph is my portable option, makes a good QWERTY keyboard for the tablet too.
Tried, but failed to get on with Roli.
Pre-ordered Osmose... might be good ...

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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:50 pm

What was your problem with Roli and what particular Roli thing did you try? I'm not a keyboard player's a-hole but I absolutely love my Seaboard and Lightpads.
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KVRAF
2677 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Post Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:08 pm

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KVRAF
3885 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:38 pm

BONES wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:50 pm
What was your problem with Roli and what particular Roli thing did you try? I'm not a keyboard player's a-hole but I absolutely love my Seaboard and Lightpads.
I can't answer for other people but my experience is that the Blocks are pretty cool, but the Rise was problematic for the way I wanted to play it. To me MPE should be pretty extreme, I'm not looking for a subtle difference from a regular keyboard, and pushing down hard on the Rise for aftertouch etc. resulted in bunched rubber. If you reversed the way slide works it was a little better, but I started thinking about ergonomics and how you're not supposed to lock knuckles when you play guitar or really anything, it can lead to problems, and I wasn't seeing a logical way around it without sacrificing slide.

The Seaboard Block is a bit better this way, but compared to the Linnstrument it's still somewhat fussy. On the other hand the Block is much easier to do big chords on, anything over 3 notes. So my solution was to have both, the Linnstrument for extreme lead type stuff and the Block for complex chords.

The other elephant is pitch, with the Roli there is no correction, you hit it dead on or you're subtly out of pitch, the Linnstrument pitch corrects on initial strike. I think had they implemented that and coated it with teflon or something slippery that allowed for slides without locked knuckles and Roli wouldn't have filed for bankruptcy and decided to be a beginners company. There's a reason fretless guitars aren't popular. :shrug:

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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:10 am

Rise is definitely not as good as the Seaboard Block in regards to "bunching", although I never really found it a problem on my Rise. It happened but it didn't bother me in any way. It doesn't happen at all on the Block.

You can tune the sensitivity of any Seaboard, to broaden the spot where you get perfect pitch. It's just a matter of setting it up so it works for your playing style. It takes about 5 minutes and it's not something that has ever been an issue for me, although I am possibly more tolerant to things being slightly out of tune than you.
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KVRAF
20465 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:26 pm

TobyB wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:39 am
Pre-ordered Osmose... might be good ...
The Osmose is available to demo at Superbooth. There have been a few demo videos posted too. And the feedback from users who tried it is very positive... gushing really. From watching the various videos and with the addition of the pressure weighted portamento it sounds so expressive... really impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqvxRjE0urE

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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:29 pm

That looks much more professional than any other version of the hardware I've seen but it still doesn't look right. The keyboard looks a lot better but some of the keys still have a different shine to others. It's way, way too big for me, though. It also explains how the initial pressure works, which is really no different to what you can do with a Seaboard. The weighted portamento seems very fiddly compared to the simplicity of Glide on a Roli.
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KVRAF
20465 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:12 am

BONES wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:29 pm
That looks much more professional than any other version of the hardware I've seen but it still doesn't look right. The keyboard looks a lot better but some of the keys still have a different shine to others.
I was looking at that and it looked like up on the back part of the keys, that the blacks keys had a slightly different finish/shine than the white keys. But I'm not sure of that and it may have just happened to be the case with a few keys where I saw it with the right lighting.

BONES wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:29 pm
It also explains how the initial pressure works, which is really no different to what you can do with a Seaboard.
The Seaboard and Linnstrument both use velocity. The Osmose doesn't. It is different. If you ever have a chance to play it you will understand.

BONES wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:29 pm
The weighted portamento seems very fiddly compared to the simplicity of Glide on a Roli.
I agree partly, if you want to hold a chord and then slide one of the notes up an octave, the Glide on the Roli or Linnstrument would be easier. The PWP has some limitation with polyphony too so it only works with last note played.

However, on the Osmose, playing a lead melody or bassline and having control over pitch slide/portamento according to ones playing is expressive and nuanced in a way Glide is incapable of. It is integral to ones playing and doesn't require an additional action. In that way, for mono playing, it is far more natural. Some of the demos of PWP are gorgeous sounding.

So for polyphonic pitch slide, the PWP cannot do what the Roli can do. But for mono playing, the PWP offers something new that the Roli or Linnstrument cannot do.

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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:54 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:12 am
The Seaboard and Linnstrument both use velocity. The Osmose doesn't. It is different. If you ever have a chance to play it you will understand.
It is clearly different but you use both to achieve the same result. Personally, I think I would find it hard to get much mileage out of initial pressure because of the way I play. I am completely unused to long key travel, I think it would do me 'ead in. Although if I used one of the techniques I use with my Seaboard for atmospheric sounds, which is to rest my fingers lightly on the keys, that might work. But it's all purely academic, there is no way an Osmose is going to fit in my carry-on luggage so I ain't getting one.
However, on the Osmose, playing a lead melody or bassline and having control over pitch slide/portamento according to ones playing is expressive and nuanced in a way Glide is incapable of. It is integral to ones playing and doesn't require an additional action. In that way, for mono playing, it is far more natural.
I'm not sure I get what you mean here because Roli has Glide and Slide. I pretty much never use Glide but I use Slide ALL the time, more than aftertouch. Especially on the Lightpad, Slide is the most natural thing in the world, like wiggling your finger for vibrato (which I do on every keyboard I play these days).
Some of the demos of PWP are gorgeous sounding.
One thing that stood out in that video was the types of sounds - nothing at all that I would need or want. It's likely just a reflection of that guy's personal taste but it definitely put me off. And these guys need to remember that Roli's first product also had a built-in synth engine and it was the first to get the chop.
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KVRAF
20465 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:53 pm

BONES wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:54 pm
However, on the Osmose, playing a lead melody or bassline and having control over pitch slide/portamento according to ones playing is expressive and nuanced in a way Glide is incapable of. It is integral to ones playing and doesn't require an additional action. In that way, for mono playing, it is far more natural.
I'm not sure I get what you mean here because Roli has Glide and Slide. I pretty much never use Glide but I use Slide ALL the time, more than aftertouch. Especially on the Lightpad, Slide is the most natural thing in the world, like wiggling your finger for vibrato (which I do on every keyboard I play these days).
I'm only referring to pitch... the pressure weighted portamento allows the movement of the fingers playing notes to control the portamento speed and amount.

On the Roli one needs to do an additional action of sliding the note up or down the keys to change pitch, like a guitar bending a string. A guitar player plays some notes then has to pause to bend a string. With the Osmose, just playing the following note it is already there. Holding the first note for a moment as the second note plays gives a short portamento. A bit longer, a bit longer portamento. It is fluid even with fast notes because no secondary action is needed. It happens naturally when playing notes. I very much like the sound of the subtle portamento variations I hear in the demos. And, yeah, it might not be of use for what you do.

Also, Osmose is not a replacement for the Roli. They are different. Osmose has no Slide. The Y axis makes no difference. On the Osmose, it is the second level of Aftertouch that is mapped to CC74. In that regard, it is less capable than the Roli or the Linnstrument. They each do stuff the other doesn't.

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GRRRRRRR!
12581 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:55 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:53 pm
With the Osmose, just playing the following note it is already there. Holding the first note for a moment as the second note plays gives a short portamento. A bit longer, a bit longer portamento. It is fluid even with fast notes because no secondary action is needed.
That's not what I saw in the video. What I saw was that you control the portamento of one note with the previous key, so you need to be thinking about what two fingers are doing at once, which to me seems a lot harder than a bit of Glide. In the end, though, it's really just what you can do with a pitch-bend wheel, without having to use a pitch-bend wheel.
In that regard, it is less capable than the Roli or the Linnstrument. They each do stuff the other doesn't.
I don't even see that. To me it's just a different way of doing the same things. In the end, you choose the one that works for you. For me, at the moment, that's a Roli Lightpad or two.
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