Went OTB - and then ITB again

[egbert101]

Making music has nothing to do with rationality.

Same for wasting time writing on internet forums. There is simply no practical or rational reason to come here. We come here because we're insane.

[Hink]

Oh and I call bullshit too, why not…everyones experiences except my own are bullshit

Nice try but it's only bullshit when you can't support it with facts. You have to remember that I currently own 8 hardware synths. The difference between you and I is simply that I don't pretend that there is any rational reason for owning those things. I am fully aware that it's an obscene indulgence on my part, completely unjustifiable in any logical way. But I am completely comfortable with that, which is why I don't understand why you have to try and justify the unjustifiable.

I was joking

And I have slightly less that zero interest in discussing it as I haven't actually read your post beyond “bullshit”, I might later when I get time, busy just now.

Except that there isn’t a rational reason to own any synths, hardware or software. We own them because we want them. Making music has nothing to do with rationality. I don’t understand why people treat a synthesizer purchase the same way they might treat a car purchase. A car purchase might be totally rational, like getting a Honda Civic for your work commute, or a totally irrational purchase like a McLaren to tool around town. (Though, that kind of display of plumage might be rational in catching the eye of certain types of birds…) An instrument purchase… that’s all based on desire and want. Not need. No one needs an instrument of any type.

a musician needs an instrument to perform, we have these things called professional musicians who feed their families and pay their bills too, their job is music...they need tools, if they play the synth, the music they are playing has that synth and that is how they earn their living what are they suppose to do? Go on tour with a piano and scream out "I dont need no stinkin synth"

get a proper job

not me like, no thanks. im happy with the whole "little money lots of freedom" thing i got goin on

tbf, id have money, if i didn't keep buying stuff.

tbf money is a terrible motivator for me, time is a great motivator for me...I value time so over money...but honestly that is the feel I get from that post...music isnt a need...it takes a lot of chutzpah to believe one has the right to make that decision for others. Perhaps he is mixing requirements and needs, a child needs love and guidance to grow and mature, same child requires food, water, air to stay alive. One could mistake basic needs with basic requirements, but imo requirements mean we cannot survive without it and needs we can live without though it may not be in our best interest, it may not be what is best for us not having our needs met but we get by.

With that said, music is a need in my life...yes I could survive without it but tbh I dont know how, it being a constant presence in my life for well over half a century has cemented as something that is definitely needed in my life

[BONES]

Except that there isn’t a rational reason to own any synths, hardware or software. We own them because we want them.

That doesn't make sense at all. I don't want synths, I want to produce and perform songs and I need instruments to achieve that. That is a rational justification for having them.

Making music has nothing to do with rationality. I don’t understand why people treat a synthesizer purchase the same way they might treat a car purchase.

Me, either, but in exactly the opposite way. I would give up all my synths before I'd give up my car. I love making music but it's definitely a close second to my love of driving.

An instrument purchase… that’s all based on desire and want. Not need. No one needs an instrument of any type.

I buy instruments like a mechanic buys spanners. It is definitely about need 90% of the time, rarely about want. Over time, there'll be favourites I use all the time, because they get the job done, and others that just sit in the bottom of my tool bag, unused.

OTOH, buying a car is all about want for me. A car is at the pinnacle of my driving desire, but a synth is just a building block towards the pinnacle of my musical desire, which is to get up on stage and perform. So which car I have is of paramount importance, whereas which synths I have on stage doesn't matter to me in the slightest, as long as they get the job done. In fact, the synths on stage are no more important to me than the keyboard stand they sit on.

That, of course, allows me to be objective about them. They are just tools to me and whilst I'm happy to pay whatever it costs for the best tools, I'm not going to spend more than I need to and I'm not going to kid myself that any of them are better than they are. They are all replaceable and, over time, they all get replaced. There is actually not one single instrument we used on any of our first three albums that we still use today and only one instrument, used on one song, from our most recent album that we had used on any older album.

I happened upon a nearly 1 hour demo of the Arturia PolyBrute. Mostly just playing and tweaking of sounds. I immediately loved the sounds I was hearing.

It's delusion, particularly if you are getting that vibe from a Youtube video. I was stupid enough to use exactly that as a justification for getting Analog Keys. Expensive lesson but one well learned. The YouTube demos sounded great but in the context of my software set-up, it struggled to hold its own and, ultimately, using it was too much hassle to be bothered with.

For me, analog still has something digital doesn't and I'm still discovering that I really like analog synthesis. I decided to buy a PolyBrute.

A blanket statement like that just proves your irrational bias. There is just as much range in the sound quality of analogue as there is for anything. e.g. As much as I love My Uno and Uno Pro, they can't hold a candle to JP6K when it comes to big, fat, analogue-style basslines. Any good V/A can easily compete with any analogue hardware.

We have so many, so simple and so complex softsynths that even developers have a hard time bringing something new to the table...
... I came across Bodyssey review on Youtube and I immediately fell in love with that synth.

Do you not see the contradiction here? You are criticising software for offering nothing new, then praising a slavish clone of a 45 year old synth that brings absolutely nothing new to the table. Again, it exposes an irrational bias.

There's something that simply resonates with me (definitely not the effect section of Bodyssey with mono ping-pong delay but that's another story ). Sound and the opportunity to change habits were the main reasons to buy it but now I enjoy spontaneous jam sessions with it without making any recordings. Not every synth work that way.

So it's actually nothing to do with the instrument, it's what it has done to shake up your workflow? Sounds like it could have been anything. Roli Lightpad has done the same for me in recent weeks.

Same for wasting time writing on internet forums. There is simply no practical or rational reason to come here. We come here because we're insane.

Speak for yourself. I get plenty out of it. I learn a lot, about new instruments, about good deals and sales, about how people do things. It also helps me a lot to work through my own reasoning for doing things the way I do. This place is really important to my continued development as an artist/technician. Of course, it could be a lot better but even as it is, there is plenty to get out of it.

[zerocrossing]

Oh and I call bullshit too, why not…everyones experiences except my own are bullshit

Nice try but it's only bullshit when you can't support it with facts. You have to remember that I currently own 8 hardware synths. The difference between you and I is simply that I don't pretend that there is any rational reason for owning those things. I am fully aware that it's an obscene indulgence on my part, completely unjustifiable in any logical way. But I am completely comfortable with that, which is why I don't understand why you have to try and justify the unjustifiable.

I was joking

And I have slightly less that zero interest in discussing it as I haven't actually read your post beyond “bullshit”, I might later when I get time, busy just now.

Except that there isn’t a rational reason to own any synths, hardware or software. We own them because we want them. Making music has nothing to do with rationality. I don’t understand why people treat a synthesizer purchase the same way they might treat a car purchase. A car purchase might be totally rational, like getting a Honda Civic for your work commute, or a totally irrational purchase like a McLaren to tool around town. (Though, that kind of display of plumage might be rational in catching the eye of certain types of birds…) An instrument purchase… that’s all based on desire and want. Not need. No one needs an instrument of any type.

a musician needs an instrument to perform, we have these things called professional musicians who feed their families and pay their bills too, their job is music...they need tools, if they play the synth, the music they are playing has that synth and that is how they earn their living what are they suppose to do? Go on tour with a piano and scream out "I dont need no stinkin synth"

Clearly last year showed us that the world keeps going without live music and people do other things for money. I’ve almost always had something else going on to supplement my earnings from music and I suspect the majority of musicians don’t make a dime from it.

To circle back, music is something we want to make, and people want to hear. It isn’t a necessity. I love it more than anything else, but if my house and everything burned down, I’d keep going and hopefully rebuild my collection, but life wouldn’t stop. If I couldn’t get hardware synths, I’d just load my software on to whatever computer I could get my hands on and keep going.

Buy what you want because it works for you, not because some people on an Internet forum spit out a bunch of b.s. about why one way is better than another. It doesn’t have to make sense to anyone other than yourself.

[zerocrossing]

Making music has nothing to do with rationality.

Same for wasting time writing on internet forums. There is simply no practical or rational reason to come here. We come here because we're insane.

Oh, I find having something to do while pooping to be quite rational.

[Uncle E]

-deleted-

[kcearl]

I miss a proper mixer - will probably get one at some point but just can't make my mind up whether to go for a small one, a line mixer or go for a big one again. Currently a line mixer is winning.

If you have a lot of outboard, it's hard to beat the Presonus RM32AI. They sell for cheap used now and end up costing around $20 per channel.

I love using my summing mixer as a line mixer in terms of sound quality but the lack of mutes is a hassle.

That us a lot if bang for buck…wouldve been a definite contender if Id thought of this recently. Wonder if you can set up busses with the app??

[Hink]

Oh and I call bullshit too, why not…everyones experiences except my own are bullshit

Nice try but it's only bullshit when you can't support it with facts. You have to remember that I currently own 8 hardware synths. The difference between you and I is simply that I don't pretend that there is any rational reason for owning those things. I am fully aware that it's an obscene indulgence on my part, completely unjustifiable in any logical way. But I am completely comfortable with that, which is why I don't understand why you have to try and justify the unjustifiable.

I was joking

And I have slightly less that zero interest in discussing it as I haven't actually read your post beyond “bullshit”, I might later when I get time, busy just now.

Except that there isn’t a rational reason to own any synths, hardware or software. We own them because we want them. Making music has nothing to do with rationality. I don’t understand why people treat a synthesizer purchase the same way they might treat a car purchase. A car purchase might be totally rational, like getting a Honda Civic for your work commute, or a totally irrational purchase like a McLaren to tool around town. (Though, that kind of display of plumage might be rational in catching the eye of certain types of birds…) An instrument purchase… that’s all based on desire and want. Not need. No one needs an instrument of any type.

a musician needs an instrument to perform, we have these things called professional musicians who feed their families and pay their bills too, their job is music...they need tools, if they play the synth, the music they are playing has that synth and that is how they earn their living what are they suppose to do? Go on tour with a piano and scream out "I dont need no stinkin synth"

Clearly last year showed us that the world keeps going without live music and people do other things for money. I’ve almost always had something else going on to supplement my earnings from music and I suspect the majority of musicians don’t make a dime from it.

To circle back, music is something we want to make, and people want to hear. It isn’t a necessity. I love it more than anything else, but if my house and everything burned down, I’d keep going and hopefully rebuild my collection, but life wouldn’t stop. If I couldn’t get hardware synths, I’d just load my software on to whatever computer I could get my hands on and keep going.

Buy what you want because it works for you, not because some people on an Internet forum spit out a bunch of b.s. about why one way is better than another. It doesn’t have to make sense to anyone other than yourself.

So because you deem live music irrelevant, music is not a necessity? (leaving aside those out of work musicians, venue owners and such might disagree as things return to normal)...lets say youre right, no one ever plays live again, musicians make zero money.

I promise you right now there are people who have cognitive and physical abilities that differ from your own that do indeed need music and while it may not make sense to you it is real. Many such people need more than just the creative outlet, many have needs for sensory items such as hardware instruments.

I am right now thinking of a very misunderstood little boy I wont see anymore (but the pic of a witch he drew me is still on my fridge), I would drive him home before covid and go visit him, he would sing me excerpts from Frozen and Frozen 2...maybe not everyone needs a physical instrument but you're wrong, music is a necessity.

I am happy for you that you have found your priorities, but I am quite confident that there are plenty of people who would agree we need music...and it's not about me or what I do, I do fine...I dont play live, I dont buy synths...but I believe 100% in the necessity of music.

[pdxindy]

but I believe 100% in the necessity of music.

And in these times when there is so much social polarization, music is something that can reach across those barriers and speak to lots of people.

Music might be more necessary now than ever!

[jethrobull]

music is a need in my life...yes I could survive without it but tbh I dont know how

This!

[DrGonzo]

I think that plays a part in why I enjoy sitting and playing/tweaking analog synths. With the Matriarch, I am exploring and moving from one lovely sound to another and nothing unpleasant in between. After watching the PolyBrute videos, I am confident it will be the same. I've wanted an analog poly for a while now with a keyboard. The PB is it.

What you are describing is a wonderful feeling. When you get that perfect combination of your taste matching an instrument. I know people who swear by the Nords - I simply cannot stand them. But in their hands they actually sound more than decent. I often get this feeling with u-he plugins, especially Repro, where I just feel warm all over. With hardware - I often get this feeling with the Peak and Hydrasynth. When pushing them the tones and overtones they produce simply make my hair stand up.

It's a wonderful feeling.

[BONES]

Clearly last year showed us that the world keeps going without live music and people do other things for money. I’ve almost always had something else going on to supplement my earnings from music and I suspect the majority of musicians don’t make a dime from it.

If I did the maths, I reckon it would probably work out that every gig I have played in my life has probably cost me thousands of dollars each. e.g. Last time we played in Germany, we got 516 euros, after taxes and accommodation. That's 258 euros each. My airfare was Au$1600 (1000 euros) return. Car hire was another 400 euros, plus it cost me Au$70 each way to get to/from the airport in Sydney. Another time I spent around a grand in airfares and accommodation to play in Brisbane, with Clan of Xymox, Covenant and Leaether Strip. They only got 28 paying punters so we got paid nothing. Playing live has never, ever been about money for us. If you are outside the mainstream of popular music, earning a living from music requires way more sacrifice than I'd be willing to make.

To circle back, music is something we want to make, and people want to hear. It isn’t a necessity. I love it more than anything else, but if my house and everything burned down, I’d keep going and hopefully rebuild my collection, but life wouldn’t stop. If I couldn’t get hardware synths, I’d just load my software on to whatever computer I could get my hands on and keep going.

Making music isn't nearly as important to me as having music to listen to. If I woke up in the middle of the night and my boat was burning, I'd grab my Zune HD and my Bluetooth speaker before I worried about any of my hardware, although my laptop would be my first priority (because it's expensive).

And in these times when there is so much social polarization, music is something that can reach across those barriers and speak to lots of people.

Yeah, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

[pdxindy]

I think that plays a part in why I enjoy sitting and playing/tweaking analog synths. With the Matriarch, I am exploring and moving from one lovely sound to another and nothing unpleasant in between. After watching the PolyBrute videos, I am confident it will be the same. I've wanted an analog poly for a while now with a keyboard. The PB is it.

What you are describing is a wonderful feeling. When you get that perfect combination of your taste matching an instrument. I know people who swear by the Nords - I simply cannot stand them. But in their hands they actually sound more than decent. I often get this feeling with u-he plugins, especially Repro, where I just feel warm all over. With hardware - I often get this feeling with the Peak and Hydrasynth. When pushing them the tones and overtones they produce simply make my hair stand up.

It's a wonderful feeling.

Yeah, same for me with RePro... and Bazille, which would be my choice if I could only have one synth of any sort. The u-he synths are so well developed in every aspect.

I also appreciate the diversity of peoples experiences. A synth that does nothing for one person is magic for another. I'd say we are in the golden age of synthesis right now. There is so much amazing stuff out there.

[pdxindy]

Yeah, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

I admit, it is hard to imagine holding hands with such an angry, hate driven person as yourself, but it would do you good. Would help you start to heal your deep fear and self loathing.

And I would much rather see the world cooperating and finding common ground rather than dropping napalm and nukes. That wouldn't be a happy result for anyone.

[kcearl]

I could imagine not making music, its just a hobby and Ive considered it before…I would not want to be in a world without music though, I cannot imagine it. Ive always thought that Im not sure if Id choose sight over hearing if I “had” to lose a sense. Massive chunks of my life have been about music, dancing, living the other 6 days for that one night…its shaped absolutely everything for me. I still live in the nostalgia of those times.

Live music is something I go to, more to support the artist…but listening to favourite music in detail is a night out for me, or dancing in a large group to a specific genre when I was young? That’s been the best fun Ive had in a life full of fun things.