MOTU UltraLite mk5 vs Arturia AudioFuse (Latency question)

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starflakeprj
KVRAF
2140 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:32 am

I have been looking to replace my Arturia AudioFuse since the micro-USB port is starting to get a bit loose, so I just have to touch the audio interface sometimes and it turns off are restarts.

I just found MOTU UltraLite mk5 and spontaneously ordered it (yes, I work like that :)), just to find out about the latencies. Or I watched a YouTube test (the one below), where Julian Krause reports the latency being 26.9ms at 48 kHz and 512 samples. With my Arturia AudioFuse, Studio One reports an input latency of 15.2ms and an output latency of 12.5ms at 48 kHz and 512 samples.

Can it really be this much difference between two interfaces in the same price category? Or am I'm just getting it wrong (which is possible). The YouTube test below mention RTL (Round Trip Latency), so it could mean (and possibly do) that I should add 15.2ms+12.5ms=27.7ms.

When I think of it, it makes sense. Am I on the right track again? :)

https://youtu.be/QURGRYPs7QY
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2170 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:48 am

26.9 ms is the RTL latency, it is clearly stated at 512 samples, which is not that bad.

it seems that the vid, really used RTL latency tool, how it is called. not sure.

safety buffers are on, i notice that when switching them off on a high performance desktop, it works.. not a MK5, another soundinterface, the second one in my studio. don't use it much..

it a normal RTL latencies, at this sample buffer. don't expect much much better, at higher sample buffers, yes you can get better, but it isn't much.. (correct me if i am wrong.) o, the best performance, RTL is about 24 ms... for a soundinterface.

so perhaps your system can perform better with safety off, it depends.

but again, don't worry...
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
4659 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:15 pm

That's a lot of latency , 25 ms!!!
Rme can go to 2-5 ms ( that's 2 and 5 , not 25 )
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starflakeprj
KVRAF

Topic Starter

2140 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:30 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:15 pm
That's a lot of latency , 25 ms!!!
Rme can go to 2-5 ms ( that's 2 and 5 , not 25 )
Maybe not at 48 kHz and 512 samples? If you have it, can you check that setting?
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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starflakeprj
KVRAF

Topic Starter

2140 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:33 pm

WasteLand wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:48 am
26.9 ms is the RTL latency, it is clearly stated at 512 samples, which is not that bad.

it seems that the vid, really used RTL latency tool, how it is called. not sure.

safety buffers are on, i notice that when switching them off on a high performance desktop, it works.. not a MK5, another soundinterface, the second one in my studio. don't use it much..

it a normal RTL latencies, at this sample buffer. don't expect much much better, at higher sample buffers, yes you can get better, but it isn't much.. (correct me if i am wrong.) o, the best performance, RTL is about 24 ms... for a soundinterface.

so perhaps your system can perform better with safety off, it depends.

but again, don't worry...
Thanks, if RTL is both input and output latency combined, which the name Round Trip Latency suggest, I'm good.
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2170 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:17 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:15 pm
That's a lot of latency , 25 ms!!!
Rme can go to 2-5 ms ( that's 2 and 5 , not 25 )
RME can, but at 512 sample buffer it is 24ms, strangely i assumed 48Khz, but it is at 44.1Khz, that means not a lot of difference of course. RME high score; the HDSPe AIO Pro.
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2170 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:22 pm

starflakeprj wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:33 pm
WasteLand wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:48 am
26.9 ms is the RTL latency, it is clearly stated at 512 samples, which is not that bad.

it seems that the vid, really used RTL latency tool, how it is called. not sure.

safety buffers are on, i notice that when switching them off on a high performance desktop, it works.. not a MK5, another soundinterface, the second one in my studio. don't use it much..

it a normal RTL latencies, at this sample buffer. don't expect much much better, at higher sample buffers, yes you can get better, but it isn't much.. (correct me if i am wrong.) o, the best performance, RTL is about 24 ms... for a soundinterface.

so perhaps your system can perform better with safety off, it depends.

but again, don't worry...
Thanks, if RTL is both input and output latency combined, which the name Round Trip Latency suggest, I'm good.
sorry for posting twice, i am lazy, my latency is quite, wel...

RTL, is input + output combined, indeed. so you are good.

512 sample buffer size, did we mention sample rate, it also determines the ms, 96Khz, half of the latency (but the cost: CPU, and well 96Khz...), is mostly needed for ITB. 256 also works. but 512 is a good number nowadays, with demanding plugins, even with a good desktop and sound interface.

even RME owners go up to 1024 for mixing......
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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starflakeprj
KVRAF

Topic Starter

2140 posts since 28 Feb, 2015

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:02 am

WasteLand wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:22 pm
starflakeprj wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:33 pm
WasteLand wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:48 am
26.9 ms is the RTL latency, it is clearly stated at 512 samples, which is not that bad.

it seems that the vid, really used RTL latency tool, how it is called. not sure.

safety buffers are on, i notice that when switching them off on a high performance desktop, it works.. not a MK5, another soundinterface, the second one in my studio. don't use it much..

it a normal RTL latencies, at this sample buffer. don't expect much much better, at higher sample buffers, yes you can get better, but it isn't much.. (correct me if i am wrong.) o, the best performance, RTL is about 24 ms... for a soundinterface.

so perhaps your system can perform better with safety off, it depends.

but again, don't worry...
Thanks, if RTL is both input and output latency combined, which the name Round Trip Latency suggest, I'm good.
sorry for posting twice, i am lazy, my latency is quite, wel...

RTL, is input + output combined, indeed. so you are good.

512 sample buffer size, did we mention sample rate, it also determines the ms, 96Khz, half of the latency (but the cost: CPU, and well 96Khz...), is mostly needed for ITB. 256 also works. but 512 is a good number nowadays, with demanding plugins, even with a good desktop and sound interface.

even RME owners go up to 1024 for mixing......
Hi,

Thanks for confirming. I run my current audio interface in 48 kHz and 512 samples. I have found it to be an O.K. compromise between sometimes trying out a few chords and be able to run as many plugins as possible in my DAW. In this case, for me, I would get sliiiiiiiightly better RTL with the MOTU interface.

I actually had RME Babyface in mind, but for some reason I thought it didn't have an ADAT input, but it seems Babyface Pro FS has one in and one out.

Anyway, I think I will keep my order, I think I can place my Elgato Stream Deck XL on top of it since I don't have much space on my desk :)
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2170 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:25 am

starflakeprj wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:02 am
Hi,

Thanks for confirming. I run my current audio interface in 48 kHz and 512 samples. I have found it to be an O.K. compromise between sometimes trying out a few chords and be able to run as many plugins as possible in my DAW. In this case, for me, I would get sliiiiiiiightly better RTL with the MOTU interface.

I actually had RME Babyface in mind, but for some reason I thought it didn't have an ADAT input, but it seems Babyface Pro FS has one in and one out.

Anyway, I think I will keep my order, I think I can place my Elgato Stream Deck XL on top of it since I don't have much space on my desk :)
it is a good compromise, 12.5 ms output latency, is what you are dealing with, when working ITB, because no input latency... except latency 'inserted' by plugins, i do use plugins, that increase the latency, a lot, but all for sounddesign...

not only the latency is important, it seems, if you look at the other side (gearspace), it seems that a driver (is it only the driver??) can also be more efficient for filling the buffer.

https://gearspace.com/board/music-compu ... st15205348

RCX means... the Reaper Compressor it seems. it is done with Reaper..
how many instances (in the above list, the number of instances at 512 aren't shown..).

how important is that list? i don't know.
i can't judge it. but the list seems to be 'sound'.

my personal view: how can my desktop handle the plugins i use.... that is thé benchmark i think.

wondering if the RME Hammerfall Multiface (version 1) with a PCIe adapter, that must arrive still (the bridge adepter...), for the PCI card, will work and how it performs, against my Motu Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid (that isn't a great performer, latency wise, at 512 samples/48Khz..) and my Behringer, yes!, UMC204HD, that has a great output latency, but RTL isn't that well..

well... it is still a bit enigmatic, but one thing is for sure; my Motu has gotten a second life, with a new desktop system... and perhaps the RME, will give me more...

well good luck! the RME Babyface Pro FS, is also -not the FS- in the list, also the ultralite Mk4, but that has the same problem as mine Mk3, a strange large output buffer. (not in the list, but in the graph beneath it.)
the Mk5 is quite good, i think, better than a Mk4 or Mk3...
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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KVRian
880 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Post Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:39 am

Latency is always: Buffer size in samples/Samplerate * 1000, it doesn't matter which audio interface you use. When you enable "Safe Mode" or similar, the output buffers are increased, but the formula remains valid when you plug in the new numbers (you have to calculate the output and input latency separately and then add them for RTL).

Where the quality of the audio interface (mostly its drivers) as well as the rest of your system (CPU and RAM speed, DPC latency etc.) matters is when trying to keep said buffer filled. If the buffers can't be filled in time, latency will still be the same but the audio will break up and crackle.

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rod_zero
KVRAF
3261 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO

Post Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:13 am

Get an RME and don't buy another interface for 15 years, they have the best long time support in the industry and excellent performance.
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TaoTeo
KVRer
2 posts since 20 Jun, 2020

Post Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:44 pm

I might hop onto the RME train soon. Audiofuse is cool, but their Audiofuse Control Center feels so incomplete, almost abandoned at this point. Really excited to try out RME Total Mix software

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