MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Official support for: meldaproduction.com
User avatar
Faiky
KVRist
263 posts since 23 Jun, 2012

Post Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:19 am

Wow, operator, you've already found out a lot! Thanks for sharing your experience! My head smokes when I read this, too. I have to test it piece by piece at home, otherwise I don't understand it :D.
Thank you operator and jmg8 for hard exploring :)!
operator wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:41 am
Vojtech wasn´t here for a "some time" now. I´m a little bit concerned, hopefully everything (he and his family) is OK and he only took some holidays (or is just coding the shit out of some new ZDF Filters and needs total silence). I hope MeldaProduction, Vojtech and all of you and your loved ones (and your buisnesses) will get through this mess we´re witnessing right now.
I think they are "happily" (hope) busy right now:
MeldaDrums.jpg
I wish Vojetech and the team and all of us here and also all around the world health and peace of mind.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
operator
KVRist
361 posts since 6 Jan, 2015 from Austria

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:49 am

werzel wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:55 pm

One thing that I noticed was that, with the mouse hovered over the Character knob and rolling the mouse wheel, the values change at a higher rate than I would like,
This is the reason if you would like to use the Character as a Cutoff Knob, you better assign it to a MultiParameter and then go into "transformation shape" and change the curve from linear to an exponetial curce.

Compare using Multiparameter and the Character in my Preset... or even take a look into the Multi Parameter "LP" and look at the transformation shape of the assigned Character-Knob... you will see what I mean.
Last edited by operator on Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Everyone`s better than me...

User avatar
operator
KVRist
361 posts since 6 Jan, 2015 from Austria

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:01 am

Faiky wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:19 am

I think they are "happily" (hope) busy right now:
Good to hear/see that they´re well. :tu: :hug: :tu:
Everyone`s better than me...

jmg8
KVRAF
2384 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:51 am

Sorry, yes I made a mistake there. I got the numbers correct, but worded it wrong. I actually meant to say it gets LESS steep as the frequency gets lower.
I tested your settings and it sound really nice (to my ears at least) thanks.
Now I still need to work out how to use the Min and Max. The way you have it set up is a great proof of concept to see how it would sound, but obviously it hijacks the other parameters and also uses an MP which is not ideal. I need to work out how to get this all on just the frequency knob. It has something to do with using the words "min" and "max" but i do not yet know how to do it. I've tried a few basic tests, but nothing worked. I tried: LP(fmin200max20000) and other similar combinations.

For those not understanding the concept, paste this into MXXX1 to see a sort of visual representation.

Code: Select all

$eNq9Vl1P4zgUfedXWN6XXWloEjtpGynpqIUyi0ShSxiGffQ0t6mFa3dsByi-fhWHlKYUBBI7falzfe7Huce5TvL1YSnQHWjDlUxx0PExAjlTOZdFiks7P+zjr4ODZHJzc2PAWi4Lg-5IcYDRkZJWKyFAm7FkPwXkKfYxGufcKp3xR0hxQP34S+TTbeuYmXWK+0H4pdejGJ1dZivBrQW3GaQ48OkLM3EJJ+zh7ORiJNTstg5PyQvjxXwuuIQaDxa0OVJCsJWBPLOgQdU7pbB8yjRbtiGOQAYCZhbyqSgLLlMcfamMXM6c63XTqjjoR6SPB0mNM80CjZi8PVKltA5fPX1f5czCZJpijLZbdVIKcc6WkOLxr5IJ-ggaOZ7m9lQ29MztRWnrhx0sRhelXZX2VObw4Kc4ahmCFB8GGN04+79VvkFSFeN7TaVZW88PtneQfNNstRgkK8WlbfGy6xWk+EzdZwsQc1dD2KF+4JM4jqNuF3v7vD4ZRTo0DmIa+-1u1HsD1e2G3W6XRjF9BrmNmPZoTLuU+PRVd9ohgR8QP-bDXvQGKuyTftgPer2w-waqF0VRLwojnwT7UXVj-+bFYruzPulTn-QIicPKzXvSZaiBmUpAvuSPcKnuTSWbN0iGkon1I+iAomyplF1IMCbFfsePMPrBZa7ur+pETMrqgGuYc2FBc1kMkqmr6kSwwoxSHIQBRg-V4NjRZD-shXReO-hw6j8TDjCaArt1ZaNsoe6PlFD6mokSGireM5dBMiyten6RhjlbWa7kUBRKc7tYpvgY5qwUFqNjbqocU2bMubKzRXP+G58R0ybFIUaZKvUMXBLDzTHMuXyS4orpAuyenaaOsbwDoVaAxufX08txNr5KsRO-SXKi4VcJcraecLnXzB68QdKuoAn6PhnQOsWHxN8nh+-g5PUt+l4RXZLQJfFeK9ZrSVOp3hpAG8NmYaorpz2kBzsGH337flpfKxOVV1fEiBe4MmZsWR13J1O1leJzpZdMNAN002GMshU86emOVT3hq1XtN1qjOdfGolWTtXodmrWb35dMFuDOysZeZ3GPiGwi1zJ8xJc++3Zo8yNR98OBwq1A3c2PuNPo7XR1t83ByzaX1iqJ-hTsJwjEBC8k5H+9q-Nn0+B-7fnWNYoO0fgf97eRGwVtMXaoB7vUyedSJ7+XOmlRJ29SJ7vU6edSp7+XOm1R33qN9lCnLyzV7BnOLL+DqQYD1n271pP9iFkolF6fWlieyrlC1Q1yr3Se4ir0Uak1SPtE2836aR3DXVVbMasUeoUumYV6Ch8k9dcqGSQ-eG4Xk2byo+0LsqHQQLzG6SDxtr7QzeDgP2tNvR4=
Operator, thanks for the help with this so far, you definitely have better maths skills than I, wish I had paid more attention in school now, haha.
Surface Pro 7 = i7, 16gb, SSD. Surface Pro 4 = i5, 4gb.
Windows 10. Live, Bitwig, Reaper. MTotal.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard & Lightpad Blocks X2.

User avatar
operator
KVRist
361 posts since 6 Jan, 2015 from Austria

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:16 am

jmg8 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:51 am
I need to work out how to get this all on just the frequency knob.
Yes of course... as I wrote, my Preset is less than practicle... I only made it to try out the concept.

:tu:
Everyone`s better than me...

User avatar
zerocrossing
KVRAF
9965 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:33 am

The filters in MPowersynth and MSoundfactory don’t really bother me that much, but a nice analog modeled filter would be a good addition. I’m sure he’ll add something really good.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

werzel
KVRist
372 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:49 am

jmg8
Does this work for your needs: lp(f*1+200)
f*1 sets up your range to be the full range (up to 20,000)
+200 sets the starting point
...at least in theory

jmg8
KVRAF
2384 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:13 am

werzel wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:49 am
jmg8
Does this work for your needs: lp(f*1+200)
f*1 sets up your range to be the full range (up to 20,000)
+200 sets the starting point
...at least in theory
WOW! yes, thank you.
And it sounds great.
I set it up as follows:
LP;LP(f*1+200);LP(f*1+2000)

now your next challenge, haha! Is:
Can I make the resonance increase as the frequency increases?
Specifically i'd like to double the amount of resonance from min to max frequency.
Surface Pro 7 = i7, 16gb, SSD. Surface Pro 4 = i5, 4gb.
Windows 10. Live, Bitwig, Reaper. MTotal.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard & Lightpad Blocks X2.

werzel
KVRist
372 posts since 25 Jan, 2016

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:44 am

Hmm, not entirely sure what results you are expecting.
Is this what you are looking for:
lp(f*1+200; q*f01(f*2))
The previous formula with q control added, where q*f01 sets the q in relation to f as if f were 0 to 1 and then doubling it.

jmg8
KVRAF
2384 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:11 am

Hmmm, not sure.
I tried these setting and it didn't sound as I expected it to, so I reckon its not quite what I was trying to describe. I will try again:

There is a Q knob, I have it set to 25%.
The frequency knob is set to minimum.
I would like to increase the frequency knob so that when it is at maximum position the Q will be 50%.
(Obviously I don't mean the knob itself will display 50%, this would stay displaying 25%, however audibly the Q would have doubled in value from min freq to max freq)
I basically want less resonance in the bass and more in the treble.

BTW thanks for your help so far, I'm really close to getting the filter sound I wanted. Next I need to add some saturation and fine tune the values, then I will post it here for people to try.
Surface Pro 7 = i7, 16gb, SSD. Surface Pro 4 = i5, 4gb.
Windows 10. Live, Bitwig, Reaper. MTotal.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard & Lightpad Blocks X2.

User avatar
Faiky
KVRist
263 posts since 23 Jun, 2012

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:52 am

So a simple LP that increases the resonance with the frequency looks like this:
lp(f;f*0.00005)
The frequency must be reduced considerably to get to 1. I don't know if that helps.
lp(f;0.5*q+f*0.00005) Wit the Q knob you set the start Q (half), than the frequency knob addet more q.

Or min with Q and max. with Charakter
lp(f;q+f*0.00005*c) :)
O sorry, the last one isn't correct. But it's fun :)

User avatar
Faiky
KVRist
263 posts since 23 Jun, 2012

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:25 am

So, hope, here's the solution for you, jmg8:

LP;LP(200+f*0.99;q+q*f*0.00005);LP(2000+f*0.9;q+q*f*0.00005)

By the way, f*1 makes no sense. f*0.99 is 20 000 - 200 and f*0.9 is 20 000 - 2000.
jmg8 wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:37 pm
Wow, thanks, but after just reading this once, I have a feeling this will make my brain hurt! Haha.
In the help text for MTF there is a mention of "min" and "max" but not sure how to implement them.
I am trying to make 3 LP filters 1st with full range 20hz to 20khz, second with 200hz to 20khz and third with 2khz to 20khz. This way the slope will progressively be steeper the lower the frequency.
Actually the curve becomes steeper the higher the frequency is (Because in the high frequency range the filters are very close together). If you want it the other way round, it will be more difficult, we probably need a curve, I don't know about that. With log, round, exp, don't know.
What a mass-editing, sorry XD.

PS:
Not that complicated. Here is a filter which is according to this principle. At about 100Hz the curves meet.

lp6;lp(f*1.5);2lp(f*2-100)

jmg8
KVRAF
2384 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:36 am

jmg8 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:51 am
Sorry, yes I made a mistake there. I got the numbers correct, but worded it wrong. I actually meant to say it gets LESS steep as the frequency gets lower.
Yeah I already spoke about the mistake.
Faiky wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:25 am
So, hope, here's the solution for you, jmg8:

LP;LP(200+f*0.99;q+q*f*0.00005);LP(2000+f*0.9;q+q*f*0.00005)

By the way, f*1 makes no sense. f*0.99 is 20 000 - 200 and f*0.9 is 20 000 - 2000.
First, I input this into the syntax and it sounds great, thank you. But, I would like to understand things a bit more so a few questions:

1. What do you mean f*1 makes no sense? Why would we multiply the frequency by .9? This really confuses me, haha

2. If i want the Q to increase more or less, I just change the "0.00005" right? Why is this number so low? Would 0.0004 mean the Q would be a little less in the upper frequencies.

3. You start with 200+f. But Werzel wrote f*1+200. They both do the same thing right? Set minimum frequency to 200. So why are the written differently and what if I wanted to set a maximum frequency? Say for example, 200-2000.

Thanks for the help and sorry for all the questions.
Surface Pro 7 = i7, 16gb, SSD. Surface Pro 4 = i5, 4gb.
Windows 10. Live, Bitwig, Reaper. MTotal.
Ableton Push 2, Roli Seaboard & Lightpad Blocks X2.

User avatar
Faiky
KVRist
263 posts since 23 Jun, 2012

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:27 am

jmg8 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:36 am
jmg8 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:51 am
Sorry, yes I made a mistake there. I got the numbers correct, but worded it wrong. I actually meant to say it gets LESS steep as the frequency gets lower.
Yeah I already spoke about the mistake.
Faiky wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:25 am
So, hope, here's the solution for you, jmg8:

LP;LP(200+f*0.99;q+q*f*0.00005);LP(2000+f*0.9;q+q*f*0.00005)

By the way, f*1 makes no sense. f*0.99 is 20 000 - 200 and f*0.9 is 20 000 - 2000.
First, I input this into the syntax and it sounds great, thank you. But, I would like to understand things a bit more so a few questions:

1. What do you mean f*1 makes no sense? Why would we multiply the frequency by .9? This really confuses me, haha

2. If i want the Q to increase more or less, I just change the "0.00005" right? Why is this number so low? Would 0.0004 mean the Q would be a little less in the upper frequencies.

3. You start with 200+f. But Werzel wrote f*1+200. They both do the same thing right? Set minimum frequency to 200. So why are the written differently and what if I wanted to set a maximum frequency? Say for example, 200-2000.

Thanks for the help and sorry for all the questions.
Oh sorry I've oversaw the the correction from you.
1. Because x*1 = x.
20 000 + 200 = 20 200 but you want 20 000 for max. So 20 000 x 0.9 is 19800 and + 200 is 20 000 again. F is a variable and depends on the knob state.
If f=0 you will have 200 because if f=0 you have 0x0.9+200 = 200 ;)

2. Right. 0.00005 x 20 0000 (hz) = 1
If you set it higher, you reach 1 (full value) further
Here the log function would be good, but it didn't work or I didn't know how the syntax works. F01 should be the solution hier as the help describes, but it didn't work, maybe it's in the beta or I'm to stupid. And now I'm on vine, hihi. Sorry, serious police!

3. Pont for line. Yes. It's only that. F×1+200 = f+200
The maximum is, oh, you have to calculate. 20 000 - 200 = 19800 - 2000 = 17800 and than 17 800 / 2000 is the factor. 200+f×Factor (head calculation is is bit impossible at this state)
Hope that helps, happy quartino!

User avatar
MeldaProduction
KVRAF
11954 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic

Re: MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:45 am

The good news is the next version will have the fast filters, so for superfast modulations it should do the trick ;)
Vojtech - MeldaProduction
Image

Return to “MeldaProduction”