MSuperlooper, lets discuss where we are

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KVRist
422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:10 am

As I can see in the actual beta versions it has been implemented all I needed for a supercharged VST looper. Of course it can go even deeper, eg with Midi feedback and actionbind to syncpoints, but now it has reached a state, where I should be really happy how far we got. I won't make any more featurerequests (i made so many and many were implemented, thanks!!!!!!!) until I did a youtube video showing what is possible right now. It has been experimental for me for a while now and basic features were missing for my taste, but now let's work. Let's collect, what IS POSSIBLE NOW with MSuperlooper and in second place lets add directions where it could go...

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KVRist
234 posts since 19 Jul, 2013 from Chile

Post Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:45 am

mccy wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:10 am
As I can see in the actual beta versions it has been implemented all I needed for a supercharged VST looper. (...) now it has reached a state, where I should be really happy how far we got. I won't make any more featurerequests (i made so many and many were implemented, thanks!!!!!!!) until I did a youtube video showing what is possible right now.
Great to hear! and possibilities welcomed, yes!

It would be educating to see what a seasoned looper musician may do with MSuperLooper.
The idea is that being a complete novice in this, with just a few interesting abilities added, it could mean such an improvement at performances. And what better inspiration than to find there are interesting roads ahead :arrow: :idea:

KVRist
147 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:12 am

Last time I updated I was amazed at how many features/bugs were dealt with.
It works great for my purposes now in the latest non-beta updates.

If MSuperlooper doesn't do something I need it to, I will use other software loopers or even hardware loopers to solve any lacking features.

I would be curious to learn what basic features you think are missing?
Dirk

KVRist

Topic Starter

422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:57 pm

Dirk Diggler wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:12 am
I would be curious to learn what basic features you think are missing?
Dirk
I simply needed immediate delete and now it's there (I can't wait to hear my failure again before deleting, when I messed up a loop I delete it while playing and start with the next round...) and the ability to switch scenes, but that is not basic, but it was so damn near in the concept. Now this little beast is like a tiny Ableton... I like that! :-)

KVRist

Topic Starter

422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:49 pm

I just read, that bitwig has Ableton Link. ... So many apps on IOS have Ableton Link,m can't be too difficult... I won't ask for a feature, I promised, but ... is it too difficult to add Ableton Link to MSuperLooper? ALL THESE APPS HAVE LINK: https://www.ableton.com/en/link/products/
A VST Plugin with Ableton Link would be kind of a revolution! So finally you could sync Bitwig with a looper and send first track tempo detection to Bitwig...

Here is the Link :-) for developers:
https://ableton.github.io/link/

Just an idea...

KVRist
147 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:16 am

Well there you go, I'm unsure what you mean by switching scenes?

Do you mean tracks?

Are you using a midi controller to control MSuperlooper?

Also doesn't Link try to do everything over the LAN?

KVRist

Topic Starter

422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:29 am

Dirk Diggler wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:16 am
Well there you go, I'm unsure what you mean by switching scenes?

Do you mean tracks?

Are you using a midi controller to control MSuperlooper?

Also doesn't Link try to do everything over the LAN?
Switching scenes is that you can record your first scene on Track 1-X on loops 1, then jump to loops 2 and after having a Part A and a Part B on loops 1 & 2 & ... maybe Part C & D on 3 ...4 you can set one Multiparameter to switch between Part A and B... so all loops on all Tracks (or you could even define only loops on Tracks 5-16 to change, when percussion stays the same for all parts) change from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 with one click. Yes, I'm using midi controllers.

Yes, Link works with LAN, but now as so many apps adopt it, it makes much sense to sync APPS on IPAD between each other!!! So you could sync multiple APPs, Computers etc... and I even bet VST to host sync (in that direction) would be finally possible!

I have been looking for a Looper with first loop tempo detection and MSuperlooper has it, so it would make MUCH sense to be able to sync the host to the VST where I see LINK seems to be the only way. I'm after this since years...

Yes, I tried Mobius to send MIDI - sync and then going back to host... didn't work for me.

KVRist
147 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Post Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:59 am

You could also just use tracks for that, I could never see the need for those "scenes", even Mobius had that feature and could never find a use for them.

I think you have it backwards, you want the host to sync the vst.
The DAW and host is where it needs to happen if you really want sync.
How can it know how many bars (full or partial) you're going to record on the fly?

It sounds like you are describing Ableton looping behavior actually.

To do that I use Mobius or a hardware looper to free wheel, which is I think what you're doing right? I have my host just records as is. I always use a click too, can't have a click without host automation right?

And sync over Lan seems like a great way to increase latency. I know there have been previous attempts to do effects over lan and the same problems show up.
You might be able to pull it off on a gigabit network?

KVRist

Topic Starter

422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:25 am

There are several loopers which detect the Tempo. I build one for myself with scripting in reaper.

No I definitively don't want to sync MSuperlooper to the host, because I do the first loop tempo detection thing, playing live as do the boss machines, Ableton, Mobius and even MSuperlooper does the first loop tempo detection. To determin the tempo is more then easy from that. You have to specify a reasonable tempo range and then it could be that the detected tempo is doubletime or halftime, but still within a good range which you can use to work further.

No, I can't just use the tracks. When I use 16 Tracks for one Scene I have no more loops to switch. Switching Scenes is cool, because its layed out allready everything how you need to arrange. Switching tracks would make me decide before which tracks would be for which scenes, because I want to switch with ONE button. Could be done with 4 tracks for each scene, but than you would have to overdub and I don't like overdubbing when I have the possibility to use one loop per 'voice.
Now we got 64 loops total, which corresponds to launchpad, which is really a good amount of loops for even complexer song structures.

I did live sessions with a DJ with Ableton and LINK. I was playing Cello and recording that to Ableton perfectly in Sync to the DJ. LINK is the perfect thing for Syncing two 'loopmakers'. No latency at all. Many IOs APPs use LINK with great success. loopy is just beautiful.

KVRist
147 posts since 12 Sep, 2007

Post Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:02 am

Very interesting application, thanks for describing it.
Now I think I understand better, and it's very different from my use case.
That's what made it so hard to understand the problem.

I'm pretty sure there's always latency over lan, if you're going out of one machine and in to another there has to be latency.

Cheers,
Dirk

KVRist

Topic Starter

422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:13 am

It's just about syncing . No audio is transferred. Both applications have their own output.

KVRist
283 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from Brighton

Post Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:24 pm

Just wanted to pop in to add my +1 to pretty much everything in this thread. I feel exactly the same as OP - this looper has come a long way in a very short time, with loads of FRs added in a quick but sensible way (including one or two of my own). It's really exciting to see software develop like this and I can't wait for whatever might be around the corner.

I also feel it would be nice to see some more videos and demonstrations for what MSL can do. I feel with looping that it's very easy to get stuck in your own workflow/paradigm, and not even be able to conceive of what's possible before someone else actually shows you. Even some of the brief discussion above has got me thinking about these ideas in a different way :tu:

KVRist

Topic Starter

422 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Post Tue May 04, 2021 9:42 am

https://www.liveloop.live/

Just found this. The idea with Ableton link seems to spread :-)

But seems, MSuperlooper is nicer as a whole... for me at least...

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KVRian
570 posts since 7 May, 2002 from Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Post Tue May 04, 2021 11:44 am

Ableton Link is great to have, but it appears to me that only hosts are supporting Link, not plugins. Liveloop is a standalone program (made with MAX, which has Link functionality built in). Also, for example Reaktor standalone has Link, but the plugin does not.

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