All MeldaProduction plugins updated to 13.00 and public MSoundFactory beta released

[mevla]

I believe the MSF user manual should be very much in depth

[DarkStar]

It is 139 pages. As in the other manuals, it describes the screens and parameters. If you want to know how to use it, check out Chandlerhimself's excellent videos.

[dionenoid]

There is the generalized lock feature - check utilities panel with modulators. You simply touch all parameters to lock and that's it. But there's not much besides the unisob in the oscillator module, so i quite don't know why would you use these presets instead of the shape presets.

I don't think you understand what i mean, think i should have made myself a little bit clearer.

The main problem is that the Unison is part of the standard oscillator module (only). While this is a nice feature, the problem starts if i make a sound consisting of for example 2 standard oscillators and an Additive module. There's no way to add Unison to the whole sound. Only to the individual osc's, but then not even on the additive one. And especially not on the sum of the osc's.

What i mean with 'it should be locked' is that Unison should either be part of the envelope section, or better, as a seperate module. That way your settings can stay the same with whatever osc module you decide to use. In whatever routing you choose. I have lots of other synths that can do this ; in Avenger or Falcon i can even use the overall Unison on Samples, FM, Wavetable, whatever. But not in MSF.

In MSF the envelope section is locked : whatever osc module you use, the envelope stays the same. The fx are locked, same story : if you change an osc or wave preset the fx still remain the same. For Filters there are seperate modules so you can keep their settings while changing an osc. But there's nothing for Unison. Only a Unison fx, which adds latency and is not the same thing as the one in the osc really.

Hope this clears it up a little. And hope you will think about this for future updates.

[jmalge]

...The main problem is that the Unison is part of the standard oscillator module (only). While this is a nice feature, the problem starts if i make a sound consisting of for example 2 standard oscillators and an Additive module. There's no way to add Unison to the whole sound...

Yes there is. Look more closely at the list of available modules in the generator tab:

1. Open up the generator tab and drop a "Unison" module onto the grid.
2. Then, inside the Unison module, put your two standard oscillators and your additive module
3. Be aware this can eat a lot of CPU, especially if you happen to realize you can stick anything inside Unison that you could otherwise put in the generator tab, including more Unison modules.

[MeldaProduction]

Exactly! While other synths only support global unison, eventually eating up voices, here you can control what is "unisoned" and how.

[dionenoid]

...The main problem is that the Unison is part of the standard oscillator module (only). While this is a nice feature, the problem starts if i make a sound consisting of for example 2 standard oscillators and an Additive module. There's no way to add Unison to the whole sound...

Yes there is. Look more closely at the list of available modules in the generator tab:

1. Open up the generator tab and drop a "Unison" module onto the grid.
2. Then, inside the Unison module, put your two standard oscillators and your additive module
3. Be aware this can eat a lot of CPU, especially if you happen to realize you can stick anything inside Unison that you could otherwise put in the generator tab, including more Unison modules.

Yes, but that's a pretty cumbersome way to achieve something that can be implemented in such a simple way. Plus, it's ridiculously cpu hungry and therefor pretty much unuseable. I tried it last night and even at low-quality my pc couldn't even handle more than two oscillators, especially when you have longer release times.

Please, Unison is so simple to implement. Just do it like the other modules work (like Filters), or put a Unison section in the Global section. Really don't get why such a basic thing has to be so difficult.

I get that this is a beta synth so it's still work in progress and i really hope it can be changed.

[MeldaProduction]

Sorry dionenoid, but that's not planned, it would be very complex considering the modularity and would actually be a step backwards. What most synths do is a clone of oldschool hardware, where it was the only easy way to do it. At the end unison in a single oscillator does exactly that. And the Unison module provides the complex stuff. I just checked and using unison in a single oscillator doesn't seem to be much faster than Unison module. If you have some settings, that seem CPU hungry, please post it or email it to me, so I can check it out.

[dionenoid]

Sorry dionenoid, but that's not planned, it would be very complex considering the modularity and would actually be a step backwards. What most synths do is a clone of oldschool hardware, where it was the only easy way to do it. At the end unison in a single oscillator does exactly that. And the Unison module provides the complex stuff. I just checked and using unison in a single oscillator doesn't seem to be much faster than Unison module. If you have some settings, that seem CPU hungry, please post it or email it to me, so I can check it out.

Okay, was afraid of that. I don't agree but hey, it's your product
So what about making the Unison fx work without any latency ? Is that a viable option for a future update ?

Thanx for the answers so far.

[MeldaProduction]

I'm afraid the Unison FX cannot be made without latency, it's impossible. Sorry. In any case I'm lost in what the problem is. The unison is on all oscillators (separately, which is more than basically all synths out there can say) and so the effect is the same. Is it all just about oscillator shapes in presets???

I mean I get it, you are not used to this, but that doesn't mean it's bad... (on the contrary imho)

[dionenoid]

It's not bad, but could be better. That's all i'm saying

[Niowiad]

I know it's not exactly the same but I would also try unison at generator level (as already said) and Chorus as an effect which does not add latency.

[bmanic]

What most synths do is a clone of oldschool hardware, where it was the only easy way to do it.

I think you may be living a bit in the past. Unison is usually tackled individually per oscillator capability and in various clever ways to be CPU friendly. This is why some modern VSTi synths can reach stupid levels of unison voices (like 16+ at full synth polyphony) without destroying the CPU.

[MeldaProduction]

Really? All i checked seemed to have a global unison only. Who knows then .

[operator]

Unison is usually tackled individually per oscillator capability and in various clever ways to be CPU friendly. This is why some modern VSTi synths can reach stupid levels of unison voices

And you are able to use Unison on Oscillator level (like e.g. in Hive, Sylenth1, Zebra and Serum). BUT you are also able to stack the whole architecture/synth including filters, modulation-amounts, etc.

In Bitwig and U-he the "Unsion Module" would be called "Stack Module"... they differentiate the two "methods" of Unsion this way.. there is a difference between "stacking Synth-Voices" or just "Oscillator Unison Voices".

When stacking the whole architecture and offsetting not only Oscillator Phase and Tuning, but for example Filter, Mod-amounts, Per-VoiceFX, etc, you can achieve a completly different/more complex sound than with only Unison Oscillator Voices.

I really love the Unison Module you can get some ridiculous 3-D`ish sounds out of it. This gives you THE best control over the amount of unison you want to have. I can´t recal a synth which have both of the "Unsion Methods" implemented (Oscillator Voices and Stacking the Synth Voices). But my Synth horizon is limited to a few companies, so I don´t know all of them... Maybe one I know is Diva with the Jp-8080 Oscillators, not sure, don´t own it... Anyhow, once again this proves the power of MSF. But the way it is realized in MSF is and probably will be the most flexible way in a VST synth ever...

And a little tip with the Unsion Module, you don´t need to crank the Voices up to 16. 3-5 Voices are enough to create a super wide sound.


Offtopic: As soon as this puppy will have the Per-Voice TurboFilter and the Sampler integrated the Digital-Synth-World will officially be ruled under a new name (Serum-WHAT??? and Virus-WHO????)

[jmg8]

Hehe, very true.
Today I made a really great super saw.
I used the unison module with 16 voices.
I had a filter in there (so basically 16 filters haha)
I made a pluck type sound with an envelope modulating the filter frequency.
Then I basically added a tiny bit of true random to almost all modulatable controls. I set it up in up and down mode so that the parameters would sort of fluctuate slightly around the central value.
The sound was amazing, really thick, but soft with no harshness.