"As Alien As" [Wrong Planet Jazz].

[jancivil]

I don't think of what you're interested in really at all unless I'm faced with your bullshit.

I just think this isn't for you, and I notice that you needed to have at it. I enjoyed this exchange quite a bit, albeit as degraded as it is. Do I have issues?

[ariston]

Really enjoyed this, thanks a lot for sharing! There's a wonderful interplay of tension and release in this piece, and it kept my ears on their toes all the way through (err.. you know what I mean). Makes me want to dig up Zappa's orchestral stuff.

Great work!

As an aside, I wouldn't really dignify obvious trolling with a reply. Although it is somewhat refreshing that someone is being rude in the music cafe, which is usually a very polite and considerate place.

[jancivil]

I like this. I've given it a few spins now, and I just like it. Strangely, for me, seeing Dr Manhattan over there sort of gives this piece a context. I guess the only thing I'd criticize is that when the drums come in around at 2:50, my brain tells me all that was before was just intro to some intergalactic jazz, but then the track ends, sort of an anticlimax.

I'm not inclined to disagree with that necessarily.
but 'it's just a lot of nothing so what can it mean?'

It's well balanced even on my humble (read: crap) stereos.

Now I probably have to go to the library and get that comic book and play your music in the background. Not familiar with your music but surely interested now.


How do you actually come up with music like this? Like how much of improvisation vs. polishing ideas over and over?

The Modus Operandi for this area of what I do at this point is, I have some sound design I worked on quite a bit, that I tweak for the new project; then I detail that with instrumentation and build a template. Typically I end up subtracting from that template. What it is is improvisation and then I hone it. The larger the instrumentation, the more work it is, particularly mixing. The mixing and 'sound design' is integral to the composition process. Some of what I do is polishing over and over; this was pretty quick.

Thank you for your comments.



edit for formatting

[ghettosynth]

I just think this isn't for you, and I notice that you needed to have at it.

Use whatever justification you need to dismiss my opinion, we all value some opinions more than others.

[jancivil]

Really enjoyed this, thanks a lot for sharing! There's a wonderful interplay of tension and release in this piece, and it kept my ears on their toes all the way through (err.. you know what I mean). Makes me want to dig up Zappa's orchestral stuff.

Great work!

Thanks muchly.

The people that will be interested in this tend to have points of reference, a point of entry.

As an aside, I wouldn't really dignify obvious trolling with a reply. Although it is somewhat refreshing that someone is being rude in the music cafe, which is usually a very polite and considerate place.

I'm sure you're right, but I enjoy that shit, it might be my nature to fight. And, it might be that this stupid drama has resulted in more clicks, which is another aspect of human nature...

[ghettosynth]

As an aside, I wouldn't really dignify obvious trolling with a reply.

This is good advice.

Although it is somewhat refreshing that someone is being rude in the music cafe, which is usually a very polite and considerate place.

I'm guessing that you didn't expect that to read as ambiguously as it does.

[jancivil]

let's do keep this thread on top!

(your interests are of no moment to me. you picking a fight with me evidently is.)

[ghettosynth]

let's do keep this thread on top!

Indeed, maybe your "composition" will grow on me.

(your interests are of no moment to me. you picking a fight with me evidently is.)

As I said, you don't take criticism well.

[ras.s]

Thanks for telling a bit about how you work, your MO is a great advice in fact and not just for this type of stuff. You've nailed down something with "polished impro" here. It sounds like a whole lot of folks freaking out live, but then it's just one person, I think that's great.

> but 'it's just a lot of nothing so what can it mean?'

This I put in my digital notebook under "musical guidelines", thanks.

[jancivil]

I used to take form more seriously. this is kind of an odd composition but I learned some things by doing it.

thanks for the interest and kind remarks.

[jancivil]

which isn't to say I think the form itself isn't satisfying. there is a kind of Hollywood bogus grandeur before the end. it seems to portend something that dissolves. I do that. It is a subversive streak.

in the first place the soundscape is primary; I create a layer and I COMMIT to a beginning, middle and end, a form. I might be forced to grow the middle but the end is the end, the death of it is not in question. then the next layers decorate that, detail the rhythmic implications in the pulsing of the synths...


I fully expect 99% of people to hate this. It is not news to me in any way. I am simply not at all interested in the type of approbation a ghettosynth is. if you want to say 'I don't like this', it isn't anything to me to hear that.

but this tacky - yet pompous - pretense at criticism, out of not more than a resentful intent, I can't respect. I am punching down to continue to engage in argumentation at this point which is gross itself. But no.


Here we have a person that has made - in pure reaction to me trying to tell people to learn songs if they want to obtain facility with melody - the MOST specious arguments in favor of eschewing musicianship, and sticking to the most inane, bogus points to try and salvage a sinking ship where he's way out of his depth, posturing as disdainful of an area so far past his borders it's absurd.

So you came back to reiterate your already desperate personal comment 'you don't take criticism well'; 'edited three times'. Another flailing argument lost. You are not fit to criticize this. I do not in any way respect your views. What on earth will have led you to think I consider you as a peer? Irrelevant, impertinent. As far as people taking criticism well: What is the virtue in taking shit off of someone you have surpassed? You are an irritant like a mosquito to me. Persistent tiny creature trying to suck energy out of me.

So someone wholly unable to talk in musical terms, trying to get over by some vacuous lingo, way up here over the surface, as if to elevate 'I don't like it' [IE: 'I don't like you'; there's your terms, my composition & my KVR persona are bundled. 'There is no requirement...' - but there is. There is no reason for your contribution here except to reiterate what you don't like about me. Read the forum rules.]?


There is not one legitimate remark pertinent to music here. If one wants to say, 'well the mix is unbalanced', 'the mids overwhelm, it's cluttered', or as we saw, ultimately the thing wound up anticlimactic, good/good. I might agree or not, but this is normal discourse. "Do you call this art?" is a little prick looking for some heat coming back. It isn't just the person I object to, this is bullshit that has always been around; mediocrity can't stand to be challenged. It's the same quality as all of these morons that go around clicking thumbs down on youtube because something was different than the crap they consume, reactionary automatism from know-nothings.

Jean Roy per a performance of Varese Deserts: "a certain number of people (who had not paid for their seats) felt they were being attacked in their stupidity, and protested noisily." Derière le miroir, Paris, #23. Editor A. Maeght. 1955.

I get pegged as avant-garde because of the vocabulary. I do not however seek to be at the front of any garde let alone militantly novel. I don't have any interest in novelty for its own sake.
I enjoy playing with cliches, even. Everything is in context with the sound. I think a lot about the sound in the beginning and then I let the characters of instruments speak and I let that rule me instead of me forcing the issue. The reason this morphs through to the more obvious jazz flavor owes to the sound of instruments and the logic of the line in improvisation possible owing to the personality of the instruments. I choose a cast carefully. These cats had a certain time to get their licks in, in a certain worldline, and everyone was on the same page. We have certain essences of Varese revealed to be a jazz group in an alien milieu and it sounds like a Tigress and the U-Fraidees track. I should worry?


It's just some stuff. I don't need to make a mark on the world. That kind of ambition is overcompensating for insecurity. I don't have grandiose thoughts or the ambitions of a young person. I'm into enjoying myself in music in the journey of learning and I shared this enjoyment with the group.

[ghettosynth]

not at all interested in the type of approbation a ghettosynth is

Could have fooled me, how many words is that, five hundred, a thousand? I love how you're counting my edits, that's choice!

PS: Enjoy the bump!

[jancivil]

look up the word approbation. I'm bitch-slapping you for bullshit and impertinence. Do I expect strokes for that shit? lol. you aren't offering criticism; you're a know-nothing, you say nothing about music & why would you. I would never expect someone with your attitude to evidence the least understanding of, let alone like the more substantive types of music.

Though I wouldn't like for people to see your comments unchallenged, you were driven to portray what I do in that light, and no. this has hundreds of views, a thousand people will see this. I will talk about my aesthetic in this case.

As far as what I say TO YOU? It's out of a flaw in me to do it at all. I don't expect anyone cares to see that but you, digging back to - what was it, pg 4? - to do this. I didn't bump it. You are strangely focused on me to be here with this sick negativity at all. You're actually clamoring for my attention and I granted you it. Stupid of me, no doubt.

Go blow your harmonica, son.

[ghettosynth]

you're a know-nothing.

I earn my living from what I know, do you? Of course I don't mean music, music has always just been one of my hobbies. I'm pretty sure that I've never said otherwise.

you aren't offering criticism.

Certainly I did. You were one of three or so tracks that I commented on at about the same time. You can spin my comments however you want, I meant it at face value. I'm not going to engage your rants.

digging back to - what was it, pg 4? - to do this.

This is the main flaw with pretty much all of your analysis. You cannot, or will not, imagine an alternative scenario. I assure you, no digging was involved. It seems to me that you indulge your myopic view to construct whatever hateful scenario gives you the most freedom to be caustic towards others.

you are strangely focused on me.

In your fantasies, perhaps. Your nonsense pops up on my radar and it's always among the most caustic on KVR, if I notice anything about you, it's that. Go on, count my posts, how many are directed at you? When this thread popped up again I was amazed that you'd droned on further, as if anyone actually cared about what I said, or how successful you were at spinning an appropriate interpretation.

FYI: I've had you on mute for god knows how long, I don't even read most of what you write. You aren't winning arguments, you're just talking to yourself.

The mute option is over to the left.
<-----

[jancivil]

you aren't offering criticism.

Certainly I did. You were one of three or so tracks that I commented on at about the same time. You can spin my comments however you want, I meant it at face value. I'm not going to engage your rants.

It was not the least bit surprising to me that you don't like anything about this. You aren't able to criticize the thing itself. 'I don't like it' isn't an argument.

You just totally proved my point. You have found my remarks elsewhere 'caustic' and you took the opportunity to have at me here. you can't possibly have given this an honest chance, you're bullshitting. it's internet flaming.

Then, you need to try and save face by continuing to try and reframe what you did here, which has no other point other than to mark you don't like me.

I pretty much already granted I was talking to myself. I'm self absorbed, I'm a loser, whatever, man. There is little negative you can say to me as a person I haven't done to myself.

It seems to me that you indulge your myopic view to construct whatever hateful scenario gives you the most freedom to be caustic towards others.

Find a mirror, you know.

I won't be surprised to see you answer this some more again.