The Wagtunes Corner (Reviews By Request)

Share your music, collaborate, and partake in monthly music contests.

What CD Would You Like To Hear Me Do?

Modern Pop (Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, etc.)
4
5%
Classic Rock (Stones, Beatles, Who, Zep)
5
6%
Prog Rock (Yes, Genesis, Kansas, etc.)
6
7%
Show Tunes Style (Sound Of Music, My Fair Lady, etc.)
1
1%
Country (Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks, etc.)
2
2%
Disco (Bee Gees, Tramps, etc.)
12
14%
Metal (various sub genres)
8
9%
EDM (various sub genres)
9
11%
80s (various genres)
6
7%
Your Music Sucks. Please Stop Making It
32
38%
 
Total votes: 85

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
19703 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:33 pm

FWIW, we sometimes tend to remember things differently than how they actually were.

Go to page 35 of this thread. TCC and I actually had a civil conversation about Ringo Starr. I don't know when things went off the rails or how, but I'll take my share of the blame.

I never claimed to be perfect.

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
32129 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:33 am

how is this not just plain flaming a thread? Please dont answer that, just stop
Now I'm old, I puff my pipe
But no-one's there to see
I ponder on the lesson of my life's insanity

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
19703 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:39 am

Hink wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:33 am
how is this not just plain flaming a thread? Please dont answer that, just stop
Hink, I didn't ask him to come in here. Don't blame me for his post. I just want to drop the whole thing already. Delete his post. That's all.

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
32129 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:46 am

np
Now I'm old, I puff my pipe
But no-one's there to see
I ponder on the lesson of my life's insanity

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
19703 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:26 am

Well, I'm taking a short break from writing. I need to clear my head a bit.

I went back and re-read some of the more recent comments on my music, especially the ones from Crimson, which were actually some of the more constructive and helpful comments I've received. I was just too busy being defensive because my feelings were hurt to realize this at the time. So my apologies to Crimson.

So I've had some time to do a lot of thinking, play some music of bands I like, play some of my recent stuff for comparison and have come to the conclusion that I've gone as far as I can go on my own. I absolutely can hear the difference between one of my productions and the production of someone like a Max Martin. If he's a 10, I'm a minus 6. It isn't even close.

While I am frustrated, I am also determined to get better. Not just a little bit better but much better. Problem is, I honestly don't know what else to do. I've watched hundreds of hours of Youtube videos by some of the best in the business, and while I have learned a lot and while there is no question my productions now are better than they were 2 years ago, I've reached a plateau. And I don't know if it's a lack of skill, equipment (I don't have a million dollar studio) or both.

Ideally, I'm pretty sure that the only way I'm getting to the next level, assuming that equipment is not the problem, is to go to some place like Berklee and have an instructor look over my shoulder and say to me "This is what you're doing wrong."

Right now, I rely mostly on meters and visuals and doing some things by rote. I know that my ears are part of the problem. I simply don't hear some of the "problems" that people point out and yet I do hear the difference between my tracks and one produced by a Max Martin. So something is obviously wrong. I just don't know what it is.

And sadly, I doubt there is anybody here who can really help me, even if they wanted to. I think my problems are too complex to be corrected by some tips in a music thread.

Anyway, that's it. No, I'm not coming to anyone here to help me. I doubt there'd be any takers anyway. I've pretty much alienated everybody with the smarts to pick my game up even just a little. But I will say this and I'm making this a promise for the New Year. If anybody does want to comment on anything I do, please be as brutal as you can. I have finally reached the point where I'm tired of sounding like crap. There may be no hope for me but I at least have to try.

Thanks.

User avatar
Mozex
KVRian
540 posts since 18 Mar, 2019

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:33 am

You made good music man, no need to bring yourself this down at all. We had our differences but I always thought you were a good musician. When I hit a wall in music making I take a break for a few weeks. Inspiration is like water in a well, in the end it will run dry. You need to wait a few weeks then for the rain to fill the well again. Maybe this is the case for you too. Really, the songs I heared were not bad at all and I found them composed and played very well. Just take a break as you said yourself, for a few weeks and come back to music making. I am sure it will all be better then.
-What is that? Music?
-No its a chicken noodle.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
19703 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:36 am

Mozex wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:33 am
You made good music man, no need to bring yourself this down at all. We had our differences but I always thought you were a good musician. When I hit a wall in music making I take a break for a few weeks. Inspiration is like water in a well, in the end it will run dry. You need to wait a few weeks then for the rain to fill the well again. Maybe this is the case for you too. Really, the songs I heared were not bad at all and I found them composed and played very well. Just take a break as you said yourself, for a few weeks and come back to music making. I am sure it will all be better then.
It isn't so much the music I'm talking about as it is the production quality or mix. Quite simply, they don't sound like the stuff on the radio. I may never get to that degree of mix proficiency but I at least want to try. Otherwise, I just stagnate where I am.

User avatar
Mozex
KVRian
540 posts since 18 Mar, 2019

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:37 am

I understand. I hope you find a solution to it soon then so you can feel a bit better.
-What is that? Music?
-No its a chicken noodle.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
68418 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:40 am

one thing you could do is spend time on individual tracks.

post a track, take the criticism, make the changes, show willingness and less defensiveness and if you do the work, you could do it with what you already have and know.

as i said in jest earlier "you rack a disciprin"

analogy time...

tracks are like children, you can work hard bringing one up to be a successful and happy individual.
or you can pop one out every nine months and hope one of them does well :shrug:

advice time...

pick 10/12 of your favourite tracks that you still have the files for.
let us help you, with the brutality you have asked for.
but, the first time you get defensive or worse, defeatist, then you're on your own.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
19703 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:50 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:40 am
one thing you could do is spend time on individual tracks.

post a track, take the criticism, make the changes, show willingness and less defensiveness and if you do the work, you could do it with what you already have and know.

as i said in jest earlier "you rack a disciprin"

analogy time...

tracks are like children, you can work hard bringing one up to be a successful and happy individual.
or you can pop one out every nine months and hope one of them does well :shrug:

advice time...

pick 10/12 of your favourite tracks that you still have the files for.
let us help you, with the brutality you have asked for.
but, the first time you get defensive or worse, defeatist, then you're on your own.
I think a better idea would be to do this.

Take a reference track (a song done by somebody else that I really like and think is produced well)

Try to reverse engineer how the track was done and do a new song in that style using a similar arrangement.

See how close I can come to the sound.

That way I at least have something to compare my song to and then people can say "Okay, here how in the reference track the vocal has, whatever? Well your vocal doesn't have that."

Then, if somebody knows what the problem is, tell me what they think was done in the reference track and what I'm not doing in my track. And do this for each instrument.

I may end up doing an almost plagiarized version of the song and that's okay. In fact, the closer to the reference track the better. I'll end up deleting the song from Soundcloud if the general consensus is it's plagiarized. I don't care. This isn't a songwriting exercise. It's a mix exercise. If I can get the mix right, I can then, hopefully, do it with a completely original song.

I think this is the best way to proceed.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
68418 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:53 am

sounds like a plan.
still needs you to understand that the time and effort is where the magick is :tu: so works for me.

User avatar
thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
27774 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 am

wagtunes wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:39 am
Hink wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:33 am
how is this not just plain flaming a thread? Please dont answer that, just stop
Hink, I didn't ask him to come in here. Don't blame me for his post. I just want to drop the whole thing already. Delete his post. That's all.
Unbelievable. :roll:

User avatar
ZentralmassivSound
KVRian
764 posts since 13 Dec, 2014 from Germany

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 am

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:50 am
I think a better idea would be to do this.

Take a reference track (a song done by somebody else that I really like and think is produced well)

Try to reverse engineer how the track was done and do a new song in that style using a similar arrangement.

See how close I can come to the sound.

That way I at least have something to compare my song to and then people can say "Okay, here how in the reference track the vocal has, whatever? Well your vocal doesn't have that."

Then, if somebody knows what the problem is, tell me what they think was done in the reference track and what I'm not doing in my track. And do this for each instrument.

I may end up doing an almost plagiarized version of the song and that's okay. In fact, the closer to the reference track the better. I'll end up deleting the song from Soundcloud if the general consensus is it's plagiarized. I don't care. This isn't a songwriting exercise. It's a mix exercise. If I can get the mix right, I can then, hopefully, do it with a completely original song.

I think this is the best way to proceed.
Another idea is, produce a song, then render the individual tracks (possibly including midi) and give them to producer friends who are willing to mix the song for you. If you don't find anybody who wants to do it for free, hire someone. Then you can hear what has changed compared to your own mix. It would be best if the mixer also explains the changes he made to each track und to the sum, respectively.
Maybe sites like Nail the mix or Puremix are also worth a try to get going with mixing.

Cheers

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
68418 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:16 am

thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 am
wagtunes wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:39 am
Hink wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:33 am
how is this not just plain flaming a thread? Please dont answer that, just stop
Hink, I didn't ask him to come in here. Don't blame me for his post. I just want to drop the whole thing already. Delete his post. That's all.
Unbelievable. :roll:
wasnt about you
was about a pro tom post.

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
19703 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Post Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:19 am

vurt wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:16 am
thecontrolcentre wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:14 am
wagtunes wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:39 am
Hink wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:33 am
how is this not just plain flaming a thread? Please dont answer that, just stop
Hink, I didn't ask him to come in here. Don't blame me for his post. I just want to drop the whole thing already. Delete his post. That's all.
Unbelievable. :roll:
wasnt about you
was about a pro tom post.
Thank you. God, I just can't win. I get blamed even when I don't do something wrong.

Return to “Music Cafe”