Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

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mediumaevum
KVRist
219 posts since 14 Feb, 2013

Post Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm

In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC - modwheel).

I can recommend 8Dio's Viola patches, their solo violas are really good and has some nice dynamics which you can MIDI-control with at least Dynamics & Expression - and sometimes vibrato as well. The staccatos has both of these settings + velocity control.
Though it sounds really bad out-of-the-box, when you master it and learn to use it the right way, it creates a very realistic sound.

For the violin (solo violin) you might check out Performance Samples.

Use some other dedicated cello library for the cellos. That is, a library that focus ONLY on the cello. There's plenty, but stay away from large libraries, they usually give high quantity - but poor quality.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15516 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:07 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:38 pm
Yes, that's the section of the performance violin patch that doesn't really work quite well enough for me...even being legato it needs more edge / attack / bite at times.

I did experiment with it quite a lot and that was the best I could do - I had various versions.

I've made a note for next time to try layering the performance patch with the normal key switch solo violin at certain moments or even interchanging them maybe?

Thanks for the in-depth listen - very helpful that someone else noticed that section as well! It's not a BIG issue as such, but it definitely could be improved next time.
Listening through, again. It's a lot more obvious in all the run sections. It's a shame as I think it does shorts and general sustains very well :tu:

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Frantz
KVRAF
5298 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:12 pm

The structure of the piece makes for a satisfying listen. :tu:

I'm afraid this would be much too sophisticated for an American quiz show. :clown:

I feel like you are using too much reverb. Perhaps this is a conscious decision to help fill out the sound.

fastlanephil
KVRian
863 posts since 3 Jan, 2016

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:22 pm

mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm
In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC (modwheel).
I hear that or don’t hear that also. I’m not familiar with the Spitfire libraries but most do use modulation via the mod wheel or can also be drawn in to create at least the illusion of expression for the listener.

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15516 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:47 am

fastlanephil wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:22 pm
mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm
In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC (modwheel).
I hear that or don’t hear that also. I’m not familiar with the Spitfire libraries but most do use modulation via the mod wheel or can also be drawn in to create at least the illusion of expression for the listener.
I can hear expression used all over this :shrug:

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ChameleonMusic
KVRist
76 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 pm

fastlanephil wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:23 pm
I thought it sounded pretty decent. I think one should concentrate more on what one is trying to communicate than realism. I think you could expand on these ideas if you have the desire to put in the time and effort.
Cheers Phil.

I'm someone with a vast amount of experience playing in real orchestras and I agree 100% as they never get that close yet.

Samples need to convey musicality, flow and energy more than full realism.

The result here is good enough for professional broadcast - that's a definite as I've just licensed it to a media company for a very nice fee + royalties.

@el-bo: For a Political show - you were right!!!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://soundcloud.com/chameleon-music

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jancivil
KVRAF
19406 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:46 pm

mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm
In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC - modwheel).
:lol:
I may be locatable @:
FB - Public

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ChameleonMusic
KVRist
76 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:54 pm

mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm
In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC - modwheel).

I can recommend 8Dio's Viola patches, their solo violas are really good and has some nice dynamics which you can MIDI-control with at least Dynamics & Expression - and sometimes vibrato as well. The staccatos has both of these settings + velocity control.
Though it sounds really bad out-of-the-box, when you master it and learn to use it the right way, it creates a very realistic sound.

For the violin (solo violin) you might check out Performance Samples.

Use some other dedicated cello library for the cellos. That is, a library that focus ONLY on the cello. There's plenty, but stay away from large libraries, they usually give high quantity - but poor quality.
Thanks for the listen and feedback and I'll take it onboard although I have to admit that I don't really get some of your comments...
lacks dynamics and expression

I simply do NOT hear any lack of expression or dynamics at all - admittedly they ebb and flow quite gracefully and subtly at times as it is a small, delicate chamber piece, but they are clearly there. It is NOT meant to be an epic piece with huge sweeps and dramatic changes!
(can often be controlled by MIDI-CC - modwheel).
I know...as I said to El-Bo: 41 key switches and 14 lanes of automation in there.
I can recommend 8Dio's Viola patches
Tried it, don't like it - some very noticeable artifacts in there; not very smooth and flowing in use for me and doesn't sound close to a viola at all...it is not that realistic...I know what a viola sounds like as I've sat next to them many times.
Use some other dedicated cello library for the cellos. That is, a library that focus ONLY on the cello. There's plenty, but stay away from large libraries, they usually give high quantity - but poor quality.
It's NOT a large library - it's a dedicated and highly regarded solo string specialist library.

Out of interest I've just played it to one of the violin teachers at our local, but internationally renowned music conservatoire:

"Hi Mark, nice little piece which flows well - bit tame style-wise by your normal weirdy standards! Sounds damn good overall on the first listen and in the background I was in a half mind that it was real, at least in parts and then I listened much closer. It's very effective but ALL these sample libraries fall down on runs and things like that if not the legatos - perfectly useable but never quite like the real thing. You said the violin was played live with live automation - that sounds very violinesque at times and has a serious feel of being performed - natural flow."
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://soundcloud.com/chameleon-music

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15516 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:58 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 pm
The result here is good enough for professional broadcast - that's a definite as I've just licensed it to a media company for a very nice fee + royalties.

@el-bo: For a Political show - you were right!!!
Image
very nice fee + royalties
Good to see. Puts paid to some of Henson's foreboding. And with one of his libraries, no less.

Really happy for you, man!!

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ChameleonMusic
KVRist
76 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:02 pm

Frantz wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:12 pm
The structure of the piece makes for a satisfying listen. :tu:

I'm afraid this would be much too sophisticated for an American quiz show. :clown:

I feel like you are using too much reverb. Perhaps this is a conscious decision to help fill out the sound.
Too much reverb...me...NEVER! You might be right, I have a tendency in that direction. I think I just used the actual preset reverb and levels in the patches, but I'll have a look.

Of course a tad too much reverb might also be part of those runs lacking definition - interesting!

Thanks Frantz.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://soundcloud.com/chameleon-music

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ChameleonMusic
KVRist
76 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:05 pm

fastlanephil wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:22 pm
mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm
In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC (modwheel).
I hear that or don’t hear that also. I’m not familiar with the Spitfire libraries but most do use modulation via the mod wheel or can also be drawn in to create at least the illusion of expression for the listener.
I hear that or don’t hear that also.
Expression-wise: That's sort of spot on as it's a delicate chamber arrangement. I like that little phrase!

Spitfire libraries have plenty of ways of creating dynamics and expression - real time or via editing.
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://soundcloud.com/chameleon-music

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ChameleonMusic
KVRist
76 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:07 pm

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:58 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 pm
The result here is good enough for professional broadcast - that's a definite as I've just licensed it to a media company for a very nice fee + royalties.

@el-bo: For a Political show - you were right!!!
Image
very nice fee + royalties
Good to see. Puts paid to some of Henson's foreboding. And with one of his libraries, no less.

Really happy for you, man!!
I know who Christian Henson is obviously, but 'foreboding'...you've lost me there?
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://soundcloud.com/chameleon-music

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15516 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:10 pm

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:07 pm
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:58 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 pm
The result here is good enough for professional broadcast - that's a definite as I've just licensed it to a media company for a very nice fee + royalties.

@el-bo: For a Political show - you were right!!!
Image
very nice fee + royalties
Good to see. Puts paid to some of Henson's foreboding. And with one of his libraries, no less.

Really happy for you, man!!
I know who Christian Henson is obviously, but 'foreboding'...you've lost me there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ko0coBB700

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ChameleonMusic
KVRist
76 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:11 pm

jancivil wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:46 pm
mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:41 pm
In all honesty, this sounds way too MIDI for my ears. I think it lacks dynamics and expression (can often be controlled by MIDI-CC - modwheel).
:lol:
I know, but I'm just going to bite my tongue Jan! :roll:
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://soundcloud.com/chameleon-music

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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
15516 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Quizzicality (Simple little piece for string trio - violin, viola and cello).

Post Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:14 pm

Actually! Watching his video again, it's not so much a foreboding; More a call-to-arms! :tu:

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