Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

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AZZIN
KVRist
110 posts since 25 Jul, 2004 from Italy

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:23 pm

Wow, you guys went so deep... reading is understanding.
The above posts made me think about one aspect, pointed out by cturner: that the visual programming flow should be less "redundant" as possible. I still see one source of redundancy in the design, which is the "explicit execution" inlet: an implict execution inlet (leftmost inlet that when triggered it "bangs" implicitly) as pure data and Max do, would "clean" a bit more the graph, without loosing information.

True is that the final target is a musician, even if technically inclined. But it is the same musician that grasped Max or pd, or Csound or even Supercollider: once the documentation is clear and there are clear examples, learning Architect language is not much different from learning the above languages.

Thanks Thomas and cturner for the informative posts, and Colin for keeping it up :) .

Alberto

colin@loomer
KVRAF
1892 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:28 pm

AZZIN wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:23 pm
I still see one source of redundancy in the design, which is the "explicit execution" inlet: an implict execution inlet (leftmost inlet that when triggered it "bangs" implicitly) as pure data and Max do, would "clean" a bit more the graph, without loosing information.
Thanks for the suggestion. Moving away from this was a deliberate design choice, though, as it always irked me in Max or Pd that one operand was given priority over another. For commutative operations, such as + or *, it made no difference; but for non-commutative operations, the extra plumbing needed to juggle arguments when you want to passively update the left operand (ie, update the value without banging) always felt wrong.
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

mannymang
KVRist
127 posts since 11 Mar, 2014

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:58 pm

colin@loomer wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:09 am
@manymang Let me know how you get on with 0.10.2, and if the slow loading remains, could you send me the offending patch and I'll see where the stall is? Cheers!
Hi Colin, I tried the latest version and the speed is improved.
One of my goals is to be able to change the "state" of a preset on-the-fly while playing. Changing the preset on-the-fly is too slow and glitchy. I think I requested this before... Will it be possible in the future to save the current GUI settings in the future and be able to recall these saved "states" quickly from for example a list so they can be in an order of your own choosing?

Thanks for considering!

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cturner
KVRian
646 posts since 7 Dec, 2009 from GWB

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:17 pm

colin@loomer wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:28 pm
Moving away from this was a deliberate design choice, as it always irked me in Max or Pd that one operand was given priority over another.
This is a really interesting point. Max is frustrating when you want to do math against a fixed argument (the [!+] objects and family), and also when you want to do math on either piece of incoming data (resort to 2 objects with swapped inlets). Don't know how this advantage escaped my notice in Architect.
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colin@loomer
KVRAF
1892 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:36 pm

mannymang wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:58 pm
Hi Colin, I tried the latest version and the speed is improved.
Good to hear!
One of my goals is to be able to change the "state" of a preset on-the-fly while playing. Changing the preset on-the-fly is too slow and glitchy.
Could you clarify what you mean by the state - do you mean loading another preset, say in a live set? Or are you talking about changing settings within a loaded preset?
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

mannymang
KVRist
127 posts since 11 Mar, 2014

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:48 pm

Changing settings within a loaded preset.

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
5384 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:19 pm

AZZIN wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:23 pm
True is that the final target is a musician, even if technically inclined. But it is the same musician that grasped Max or pd, or Csound or even Supercollider: once the documentation is clear and there are clear examples, learning Architect language is not much different from learning the above languages.
I personally never learned those language since I found them extremely clumsy (and I tried to like them a lot in the past). None of them ever clicked with my lego.
It's simple: For me, nodes at the atomic level become idiotic very fast.
That's what I love Houdini for. Most of it's nodes do some task that would need a lot of atomic nodes. On that level nodes are fantastic.
And then there are the wrangles that let you type in some code that replaces a dozen atomic nodes in one line. Together, the workflow is extremely efficient.
I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy doing basic math with nodes, that feels more like torture to me than creative work.

So if we could have Lua nodes with the code editor in the inspector (doesn't have to be fully live, I wouldn't have any problem with hitting a button to compile), I would probably need half the amount of nodes or less and it would still offer the advantages of a node system for the areas these excel in (= higher level nodes, visual overview of what happens, intuitive experimentation...).

Good we are having this discussion - thanks Colin!

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
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colin@loomer
KVRAF
1892 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:59 am

ThomasHelzle wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:19 pm
So if we could have Lua nodes with the code editor in the inspector (doesn't have to be fully live, I wouldn't have any problem with hitting a button to compile), I would probably need half the amount of nodes or less and it would still offer the advantages of a node system for the areas these excel in (= higher level nodes, visual overview of what happens, intuitive experimentation...).
I believe that's possible. I think I mentioned earlier that I've changed the way the Lua script module works, in that it can now be changed 'on-the-fly' and needn't always be in a syntactically valid state - this was an issue before because it meant that if you needed to leave the full screen script editor to make a change elsewhere, you'd need to first ensure that the (potentially work-in-progress) script was in a currently compilable state.

So in theory, placing the current Lua script editor in the inspector directly should now be trivial, and I can already see the benefit in having it available directly like that. I'm currently deep in some multi-core work and don't want to context-switch my brain, but once I'm done I'll try this suggestion out. Thanks!
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
5384 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:36 am

:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
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colin@loomer
KVRAF
1892 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:11 am

mannymang wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:58 pm
Will it be possible in the future to save the current GUI settings in the future and be able to recall these saved "states" quickly from for example a list so they can be in an order of your own choosing?
Thank you. I see what you're asking for, basically presets for the current preset. Reaktor definitely has this, and I remember Max being able to do something similar too. So yes, I think that's possible, and will add it to the request list.
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

mannymang
KVRist
127 posts since 11 Mar, 2014

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:27 pm

Thanks Colin, much appreciated!

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
2513 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:45 am

Hi Colin , how are you ?
Hopefully not infected :tu:

Any news about the forthcoming architect beta ?

cheers
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

colin@loomer
KVRAF
1892 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:53 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:45 am
Hi Colin , how are you ?
Hopefully not infected :tu:

Any news about the forthcoming architect beta ?

cheers
I'm well, thank you, albeit isolated - I hope everyone else is keeping safe in this crazy, crazy time, and putting their isolation to good creative use.

I'm on the cusp of getting the next beta out, and have just three or so issues that I'm not happy with and need sorting. Odds on for a release next week, then, I'd say.
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
2513 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:36 am

Thanks for the heads up

Keep safe
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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AZZIN
KVRist
110 posts since 25 Jul, 2004 from Italy

Re: Architect beta for macOS, Windows, and Linux. 0.10.2 now available

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:53 pm

colin@loomer wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:53 am

I'm well, thank you, albeit isolated - I hope everyone else is keeping safe in this crazy, crazy time, and putting their isolation to good creative use.
I'm on the cusp of getting the next beta out, and have just three or so issues that I'm not happy with and need sorting. Odds on for a release next week, then, I'd say.
Hi Colin, good to hear that everything is OK.
Thanks for the update.

#stayhome&makemusic or (#stayhome&code ... depends...) :-)

Alberto

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