0.9.0 : Linux 64-bit : Does not play well with Windows plugins

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KVRAF
2928 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Post Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:05 am

Hello,

I think that considering the scope of the problem, that not testing with 0.9.1 is OK.
I do not know much about super colliders, pds, keykits and all the like. I'm more of a regular audio plugin/DAW type. So the first thing I'm interested in is what can Architect bring to the creative process, eg. how it can augment it and offer possibilities. As such I start at page 1 of the quick start guide and follow along, while at times adding other instruments I'm used with in regular work flows.

And so I started with the mono sequencer. When I got a simple sequence going I thought of adding a drum machine, a sequencer, a synth. It did not went very far though. Hence, I hope this bug report is concise enough to describe this very repeatable problem.

A side problem to this, which could have its own bug report, is that the Architect UI will not always show up when launched. Like for the past 5 or 6 times it is impossible to see the UI. Please find all environment details below related to the main problem. Let me know if things are missing. - Cheers.

Code: Select all

Problem

Audio crash when the Architect UI is brought back into view
after being minimized only when playing along a Windows VST.  It does
not matter if the Windows VST is a sequencer or a synth.

Environment

Linux Mint 18 KDE
Bitwig 2.4.3
jackd 1.9.10+20150825git1ed50c92~dfsg-1ubuntu1

Plugins

Track 1: Architect 0.9.0 64-bit, StringVST
	 
Track 2: Sonic Charge Microtonic (Windows VST run using linvst and
wine-staging) current version
	 
Track 2 variation: Melda Production MDrummer (Windows VST run using
linvst and wine-staging) current version

Track 2 variation: Monoplug B-Step2 sequencer (native Linux)
current version

Track 2 variation: Tone2 Ray Blaster IMS synth (Windows VST)

Reproducible

  always

Background

All Windows VST can play along with all Linux VST plugins in any
combination whatsover.

Note

For test purposes, jackd can be launched within a console which makes
it easy to see when it crashes.  Command lime used for a M-Audio
1010LT audio card:

/usr/bin/jackd --sync -P80 -ndefault -dalsa -dhw:M1010LT -r44100 -p512 -n8

Steps (see also variations 1 to 5) 

  1) Put Architect on a track
	2) Add a mono sequencer and write 8 notes
	3) Resize total bar to 8 bars
	4) Add MIDI output to host and link to sequencer
	5) Add StringVST to track
	6) Press play button in Bitwig
	
	Result: Sequence loops using a StringVST sound
	
	7) Minimize Architect by clicking on the X right-hand corner of its
	window
	
	8) Create another track
	9) Add Sonic Charge Microtonic drum machine
	
	Result: Microtonic will start playing automatically using a default
	pattern
	
	Result: Both Architect and Microtonic are playing
	
	10) Minimize Microtonic
	
	11) Bring back Architect by clicking on its Bitwig device panel
	interface icon.
	
	Result: jackd audio crash.  Bitwig process has to be killed

Variation 1 (also happens every time) 

  To minimize Architect, use the down arrow button in the right hand
  corner of its window instead of the X

	Result: Adding Microtonic will not work, audio will crash
	immediately after double-clicking on Microtonic to load it.

Variation 2 (also happens every time) 

  As before, but do not minimize Architect at all

	Result: As in variation 1

Variation 3 (also happens every time) 

  As before, but instead of Microtonic, use Melda Production MDrummer:

  1) Minimize Architect using the X button
	2) Create another track, put MDrummer
	3) Load a drumset, load a rhythm, press play
	
	Result: Both Architect and MDrummer are playing

  4) Bring back Architect to view as before

  Result: audio crash, Bitwig needs to be manually terminated.

Variation 4

	As before but instead of using a Windows VST sequencer use a Windows
	VST soft synth such as Tone2's Ray Blaster IMS.

	Result: audio crash

Variation 5

  As before but instead of Microtonic use Monoplug's B-Step2 sequencer
  (native Linux)

	1) Minimize Architect window by clicking on the X
	2) Create another track, add B-Step2 sequencer
	3) Put a few notes in B-Step2
	4) Add StringVST to the track

  Result: Both Architect and B-Step2 are playing

	5) Bring back Architect into view

	Result: no crash



KVRAF
2253 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Post Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:13 am

Oh, that sounds nasty. I don't have all those plug-ins available to me to reproduce your exact situation, so would it be OK for me to send you a debug build tomorrow so I can get a decent crash log from your machine?
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

2928 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Post Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:16 am

Hello Colin,

Absolutely. I'll be glad to try it out.

OTOH, I might very well be that any Windows VST run using wine-staging and linvst can produce the same effect.

UPDATE: For instance I just tried using the free Klanghelm DC1A3 Windows VST plugin and the same behaviour was observed. The DC1A3 was added after StringVST in the main scenario above. Prior to adding it, Architect was minimized and brought back several times while playing the simple sequence to see that it did behave correctly.

Another bug that could get its own bug report - not a show stopper this time - is that when Architect is brought back after being minimized, the UI will not show the items it displayed before being minimized. Eg. if the mono sequencer was on the screen displaying notes, only the graph will be shown when it is brought back.

Side note: it could be nice if everyone submitting bug report would edit their main post once the issue is fixed to add: [SOLVED] at the beginning of the subject line.

Cheers.
Last edited by mevla on Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:37 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
KVRAF
5712 posts since 11 Feb, 2005 from Bordeaux France

Post Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:27 am

Works well as a vst plugin within Carla host here. Tested with some windows vst : Reaktor, Noisetar.
You can't always get what you waaaant...

KVRAF
2253 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Post Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:36 am

Thanks, both of you.
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

KVRAF

Topic Starter

2928 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Post Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:52 am

stanlea wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:27 am
Works well as a vst plugin within Carla host here. Tested with some windows vst : Reaktor, Noisetar.
I do not know Carla but I gather that it offers its own platform for displaying plugins. If that's the case then the software in charge for displaying the plugin would not be Bitwig but Carla which would in turn shifts totally the scope of the testing regarding the observed repeatable behaviour as described above, using only Bitwig.

Cheers.

KVRAF
2253 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK

Post Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:00 am

I'll have a build for you tomorrow, mevla, that has both logging and a global crash handler to give us a stack-trace when things go awry.
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.

User avatar
KVRAF
5712 posts since 11 Feb, 2005 from Bordeaux France

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:52 am

mevla wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:52 am
stanlea wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:27 am
Works well as a vst plugin within Carla host here. Tested with some windows vst : Reaktor, Noisetar.
I do not know Carla but I gather that it offers its own platform for displaying plugins. If that's the case then the software in charge for displaying the plugin would not be Bitwig but Carla which would in turn shifts totally the scope of the testing regarding the observed repeatable behaviour as described above, using only Bitwig.

Cheers.
Yes you are right, sorry for missing this point. I don't use much windows stuff out of Carla, so the problem may come from Linvst or Airwave. Did you try with another host than Bitwig ?
You can't always get what you waaaant...

KVRAF

Topic Starter

2928 posts since 3 Nov, 2015

Post Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:24 am

stanlea wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:52 am
Yes you are right, sorry for missing this point. I don't use much windows stuff out of Carla, so the problem may come from Linvst or Airwave. Did you try with another host than Bitwig ?
Yes I have tried with Harrison Mixbus32C which I use for mixing. The problem doe snot show with Mixbus32C but then there's a very important factor: the plugin window handling is very different from Bitwig. I was told this by Bitwig people. Mixbus32C does not 'close' a plugin window when it is being minimized. Bitwig does close a plugin window in order to save on resources.

What is the typical way of handling plugin windows inside a DAW ? I do not know. Although it would seem a correct behaviour for a plugin to be able to handle its closing and re-opening, and the majority of them do inside Bitwig. The exceptions are the Image Line vector-based UI (Harmor, Harmless, Ogun, Sytrus) which do not repaint their UI when brought back and the Applied Acoustics Player. Anything else (around 150 plugins, both Linux native and Windows) just works fine.

From a software point of view any ties to the UI that can directly drag parts of a subsystem, and with undesirable effects at that, is clearly in breach of a MVC segmented approach.

Cheers.

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