Feeback wanted for dual-boot DAW PC (again...)

[Spiritos]

1,5 year ago or so I posted a similair topic looking for advice on a DAW-dedicated PC. Alas due to financial setbacks I had to delay my new rig and since my current system is near the end of it's lifespan I now have to opt for a dual-boot system (but now at least I have the money )

I took the advice given to me in my prior thread, only opted for newer CPU and now a GPU since this will be my one-in-all system:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($336.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($132.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($152.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($282.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($217.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($115.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card ($211.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($124.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($96.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224BB DVD/CD Writer
Total: $2003.81
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-01 10:22 EST-0500

The idea is to have 2 OS (not sure about Win7 or 8.1 64x yet) on 2 seperate SSD's (The Samsungs). I'll use the 850 Pro for my DAW and the EVO for mainstream use and gaming (2 different SSD's just out of curiousity).
The Crucial 500 GB SSD is for samples as is one of the 2TB Seagates. The 2nd 2TB Seagate will be for my projects.

Then for my mainstream OS data I have the 3TB Seagate. I chose this one since it's the 'best bang for the buck'. I will partition it. Preferably I'd go for 2x1,5 TB but that's more expensive plus I'm out of SATA already.

The videocard was chosen for the idle fans when not in use and for gaming obviously. I only play 2-3 games these days (getting old ) but this card has a nice sweetspot for the desired fps.

I don't plan to overclock but I like the 0,4 GHz boost for the boxed i7-4790 as opposed to the non-K version and the cooler is for obvious reasons (Intel stock coolers suck).

The case, PSU and optical drive speak for themselves. The R5 has great testresults and the PSU should be enough (although a 2nd opinion is always welcome).

The keyboard and mouse come later (I have to feel them so do some shopping). I'll also need to buy a used 24" 1920x1200 monitor but that's of later concern.

Questions:

1) I'm unsure about the mobo. According to PCpicker I need an extra SATA 3 Gb/s compatible port but I don't see it. What am I missing? 6 SSD/HDD's and 1 GPU vs 6 SATA and 1 Express..? I find choosing the mobo the hardest component to wrap my head around so alternatives and/or advice are welcome.

2) Initially I wanted to disable the PCI-e GPU for my DAW OS but as I understand it's either unsure if this is possible at all in the EFI and 2nd I would need 2 cables from my monitor (one for the onboard GPU and one for the PCI-e GPU) and that's a no-go since I need 2 (possibly 3) monitors connected already (only for swapping between them though). Does anyone have any strong feelings though AGAINST this GPU (from silent point and possible IRQ issues)?

3) Lastly, any recommendations or criritique is welcome and once again sort of sorry for asking the same question as 1,5 years ago

[UltraJv]

Dual booting Win 7 with Win 7 or 8 can be a pain on single drive. Some have never gotten it to work.

[Spiritos]

Dual booting Win 7 with Win 7 or 8 can be a pain on single drive. Some have never gotten it to work.

Which is why I chose 2 separate SSD's with 2 Win OSes

[Spiritos]

No feedback? Perfect build? Nothing to add?

[dsan@mail.com]

I think your choices in hardware are good although I might not go for the Z97 board but I really don't know how you plan to use it. The Gigabyte boards have served me well in my builds.

Personally I'd not use my DAW computer as a gaming station but each to his own. Then too, I don't game so a lesser board is adequate in my rigs.

I would though, in my case, go with a board that allows more RAM than the Z97X. I see a future shift toward more RAM usage. I know, a lot say it's overkill. We'll see down the line.

What really boggles my mind is why the dual Windows systems. W8 is a proven successor to W7 and in my experience works just fine. Why would you need both? Besides, W10 is right around the corner. I'd say go with the future and not so much the past.

If I were to go to a dual boot OS I would likely choose W8 and Mac (or maybe Linux). Personally I see no advantage to a build of this high level with 2 Windows OS's that basically do the same. Again, just me though.

I started to challenge the K series CPU but then realized that if you are planning to game it could come in handy to be able to overclock. Not much difference in price now too between the OC version and the not so may as well go for a bit more usability.

I also don't understand the drive thoughts. RE: the SSD's - I don't think your gaining much for the price differences. Personally I'd just go with the 840 EVO for all 3. As for the HDD's, have you had good luck with Seagate? I've found WD Black does better for me.

You will need a SATA card to run all those drives at their best, since the board you have chosen will not support that many drives at 6Gb.

Oh, one last thought. In my mind that case is too small for what you plan to shove into it. Heat is a killer of electronics and I think you need to add some room in the case to dissipate the heat. While your SSD's won't create a lot of heat, the CPU, HDD's and that video card will. Not to mention the board items - capacitors and such.

Electronics need to breathe cool to survive.

Good luck with your new rig Spiritos

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[Spiritos]

Hi dsan,

Thanks (again) for your advice. You're always very helpful and I appreciate ur recommendation here as well!

I changed the mobo accordingly to: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157503
It has room for 32GB RAM and has 8 SATA 600 + 1 SATA Express so that should cover your thoughts about the mobo.

The Dual Windows system is simply a matter of 2x win 8.1 on separate SSD's. One tweaked for DAW and one for gaming/photo editting etc.
(I wanna avoid the discussion of whether it's allowed to have 1 license on 1 'machine' vs 1 OS).

I did consider VMWare or partitioning but am too unfamliair with VM to try and as for partitioning 1 SSD for 2 OS: There can be troubles with paging file/MBR and backup/restore so that feels insecure to me. Rather pay extra for an SSD to keep both OS's hassle free.

About the SSD's. Strangely enough here in The Netherlands the 850 EVO is priced similair to the 840 EVO. Why I also chose a 850 Pro is cause I'm curious about the new v-nand tech as opposed to TLC/MLC. And the Crucial 500GB is the best price/value SSD of it's size.
All HDD's were chosen based on reviews. I will look at the WD Blacks again but I recall reading the Barracudas being slightly more silent and reliable.

Excellent point about the case. I picked the R5 for it's size/price/silence and easy cablemanagement. From my POV however it should be fine: 8 trays + 2 SSD slots on the back-plate but I agree I have to look at airflow/pos-neg pressure and haven't figured it out yet.

Ideally I'd like positive pressure flow from front to back but since the drive-bays(with 3 HDD+1 SSD) could block the front-fan I might have to go for an down-up airflow by placing an extra fan at the bottom. Any ideas about that?
Also I can't find any info on audiofora regarding the quality of the 2 built-in 'new tech' fans. So I don't know whether to replace them with better ones or keep these (goal is to remain <30dB).

As for the heat: Again, good point but since the R5 is big as it is already I am in the dark where to look for bigger cases without losing quality regarding silence and even more money

[dsan@mail.com]

I mis-read your op and thought you were going with a W7 and a W8 install. Now it makes better sense to me- 2 of the same OS's, each set-up for a different purpose. I'm still not convinced you need this dual boot set-up but since I don't game I really don't know what's involved, or required, for a gaming system.

Yes, you will want them (OS's) on 2 separate SSD's. This way, if one SSD fails you can set BIOS to boot from the other. I'd go with W8 if you can find drivers for your hardware.

I must admit, I did not take a look at that case and just read "Mid-Size" in your post. Those mid-size cases I have seen in the past had no where near the functionality of the case you have chosen. After taking a look at it I am sure you will be fine. Ventilation appears to be quite adequate too. Wow, 8 drive bays!

Lots of power on that MOBO too! Only thing missing seems to be firewire or Thunderbolt but you can always add the cards if needed. Wish now I'd seen that puppy in my last build. Well, there's always the next build.

You may want to dl the manual for that board to make sure everything will function the way you want it to. Depending on how you set up you may lose some things to gain another.

I suggest you re-check the memory too to be sure it works on that board.

In all it appears you have done your homework and will have a great rig when you get it built.

Good luck!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[Spiritos]

Thanks!

I simply feel more secure about having a dedicated DAW OS aside from my mainstream/gaming/media OS as I am also new to Win 8.1 and want to be able to tweak each OS to it's maximum purpose (while fumbling my way through this new OS ). I know dual-booting nowadays seems to become more redundant but it's a matter of personal anxieties

I checked the mobo again and eventually changed it (again) to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product.

I suddenly got cold feet about ASRock (as a brand) and decided to go for an Asus again based on comparative benchmarks.
Still no thunderbolt but works well with the memory and great overall specs.

Anyway, ready to order. Hope to have it finished in 2 weeks and just dying to feel the power of SSD

Cheers!

[arkmabat]

Win10 is around the corner and the regular start menu is back.

[Spiritos]

Win10 is around the corner and the regular start menu is back.

Yeah, I'm uninterested in the Metro GUI but as I understand there are already some plugins (Classic shell?) for 8.1 to strip things down to a nice GUI while keeping the performance improvements of Win8 intact.

[Kaine]

@dsan - FYI the's news reports stating that the 840 evo firmware fix from before x-mas isn't sticking quite as well as it should, so the 850 evo is looking the better choice at the moment.

[dsan@mail.com]

Thanks Kaine for that info. Good to know.

I've not had any problems with the 840 so far, knock on wood, but then I have not updated to the new firmware either.

Now, knowing this I think I'll stay away from the update

Happy Musiking!
dsan

[Spiritos]

Personally I'm curious about the new 3D v-nand used in the 850 as it outperforms any card in benchmarks at the moment.
Maybe the firmware issues on the 840 is the reason here in the Netherlands the 840 and 850 EVO are similairly priced now.

[Astralv]

It is interesting that you decided to have 2 computers in one. I am wondering if OEM version of Windows 8 would let you do that with one license. Theoretically Win 8 is motherboard bound, so- it should not be able to tell which drive you boot from and should work. Brilliant. I actually built 2 computers with 2 Win 8 license, 2 PSU, 2 video cards, 2 cases, 2 sets of memory... So now I dont have space under my desk. lol. Your post made me want to move my 2nd computer inside of my music computer. The problem is- I am already out of SATA 6 ports. I use many soft ware synths and samplers- I ran out of space on 250 Gb SSD in first year, and by now that system has 3 SSDs and 2 HDDs. Gigabyte motherboards are compatible with Mac OS if you one day decide triple boot. lol. Also there are motherboards that support DDR4 memory- not sure if there any advantage to it over DDR3.

[Spiritos]

To be honest a dual-boot wasn't my initial plan. I wanted a dedicted DAW PC but my current rig is slowly disintegrating (dualcore/had to replace PSU and GPU already) so for me it was a cost-effective and necessary choice.

After doing some research and with the help on the forum I realised I wanted separate OS-SSDs. Mainly because I do tweak my mainstream OS from time to time and like to try out new things (with all the risks involved). VMWare felt alien to me -adding more active processes while trying to keep the DAW OS mean and lean...

So it left me with the moral question of 1 OS per license/machine. I decided I have 1 machine ^^ so I will install 1 OS with other SSD disconnected then in reverse so I get 2 MBRs and am theoretically safe from infections from the main OS (although sctrictly spoken I should completely swith off the PC before booting in other OS to prevent infection from memory).

Eventually I went for an Asus mobo:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -Skimlinks as I feel most familiair with them and it was a tad more silent. I have 1 SATA Express as an extra but don't expect to need it.

I'm more worried about having enough USB-ports for my USB-MIDI controllers. I do have a non-powered hub with individual switches but I'll have to see if that works. If not I have to look for a PCI-e solution.

(DDR4) and thunderbolt I leave for the future as a possible update (and currently in my iPad )