problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
Caine123
KVRAF
6154 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:35 am

just askin cause one of thomann's sellers told me that it could be sometimes that an audio interface hase problems with usb 3.0/ usb 3.1?
i bought already some new pc hardware and need to get a mainboard of course too (asus i think, always had asus so far) and many new boards have no usb 2.0 anymore.
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

sprnva
KVRAF
1697 posts since 16 Jan, 2013

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 am

There was another thread recently with someone having problems with a Focusrite interface on a Z170. I think the best option is to buy a pci-e USB 2.0 card.

The chipsets in these new boards don't appear to have good backwards compatibility with USB 2.0 and there isn't much choice so far in 3.0 audio interfaces. A card will have a dedicated USB 2.0 chipset and so should fix any issues.
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incubus
Banned
5378 posts since 7 May, 2015

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:06 pm

That's not very good (the lack of backward compatibility)

I mean, really hardly anything is USB 3 :shrug:

Rcl
KVRist
100 posts since 23 Apr, 2014

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:21 pm

My Motu ultra lite mk3 hybrid does not play nice with USB 3. It seems to be a known issue. There will be no fix for it.

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tehlord
KVRAF
7906 posts since 22 Sep, 2008 from Windsor. UK

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:22 pm

Virus can have issues with USB3 too. It's a known issue that's unlikely to be fixed by Access.

chk071
KVRAF
22455 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:25 pm

Hm, maybe that's also the reason why my audio interface has dropouts.

Caine123
KVRAF
6154 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:29 pm

so do you think a Novation Impulse49 midi keyboard,a midi interface Midiman m-audio makes also probs with usb 3.0?

if so f**k, i need to buy a mainboard with usb 2.0 then i guess.... this is f**ked up
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

chk071
KVRAF
22455 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:34 pm

Don't think a MIDI keyboard is problematic over USB 3.0. Mine surely isn't, works flawlessly (M-Audio Axiom 49 2nd gen).

Caine123
KVRAF
6154 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:43 pm

thanks, but will a PCIe USB2.0 card fix the issues? cause it's an attachment it might also make probs?
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

rifftrax
KVRAF
1702 posts since 26 Feb, 2008

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:39 pm

Caine123 wrote:thanks, but will a PCIe USB2.0 card fix the issues? cause it's an attachment it might also make probs?
No, you should be perfectly fine with a USB 2.0 PCI card. I might actually start hording those because there are TONS of known issues with USB 3.0 ports on Windows systems behaving very badly with a plethora of USB 2.0 rated hardware. This is especially prevalent with printers but it also happens with utterly basic crap like HID devices (i.e. only the most basic f**king peripheral standard in existence) that while at the BIOS level if you plug a USB keyboard into a USB 3.0 port it will work fine, on a fresh Win7 install you simply can't interact at all with the OS at all until you install a driver. This has resulted in lots of fun for me on new system builds using Win7 on a motherboard with only USB 3 ports.

Honestly, my experience is that overall USB 3.0 + Windows is a complete shit-show. I've had random freezes and crashes shown in the event logs directly related to sudden USB 3.0 driver malfunction, drives connected through USB 3.0 drop CONSTANTLY (yes, even with FULLY updated drivers), and some peripherals will simply not work at all.

You can see a lot of the issues detailed in plaintext by Microsoft's own dev blog, where they of course write a lot of this bullshit off as "well we had to do XYZ in order for [stupid new obsessive power-saving nonsense] to work and if your USB device's crappy chipset doesn't do ABC low-level thing then we fail enumeration so yeah that's your hardware vendor's problem OBVIOUSLY"

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/usbcor ... 0-devices/

I mean, honestly though, look at this goddamn quote from them:
Some asshole at Microsoft wrote:We urge our hardware partners to start using the USB hardware verifier tool early in their development cycle so that the errors can be caught and fixed without incurring high costs.
Are you serious? Are you completely serious?

In summary: f**k USB 3.0 actually. I'll stick with SATA if I want blistering transfer rates, thanks.
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Kaine
KVRAF
1923 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:44 am

I'm not sure you can fully level the blame at MS in this instance, it's generally bullet proof if you turn off the power scheme features that get in the way and I'd be looking elsewhere myself.

Hardware and driver wise firms test on intel USB implementations. Why? Because you get them in Mac's and the majority of audio PC's, so if your going to test on a limited selection of controllers, you may as well do it on the widest spread ones.

At this point Intel is the standard for USB.

Intel also came to the table late with USB 3 on the chipset... well, they didn't, they waited for it to be standardized and then built their version. All those USB 3 implementations on Z87/X79 pre-dated that and were bolted on using third party controllers, hooked into the system chipset and running controller implementations built around the initial suggested spec, prior to it being fully ratified.

Now that some of the current generation are running 100% on USB 3 its starting to get tricky and If you plug in a third party PCIe card to do this, I imagine you'll see similar issues as it isn't native Intel.

Now if you've got a mainboard newer than the generations listed above, and the interface still isn't working... well, the is no easy answer, except perhaps return it and buy another one from a firm who understands that USB 2 is dead as far as PC manufacturers are concerned, because I suspect the only real resolve for this is going to be firmware or driver level fix.

jdnz
KVRian
806 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:08 am

I just custom built a machine for work using a gigabyte z170x-ud3 - as well as a pile of usb3 ports it's got 2 usb2.0 ports on the back panel and an header on the board to give another 4

I've used gigabyte for decades for custom builds and always found them reliable

Kaine
KVRAF
1923 posts since 4 Nov, 2004 from Manchester

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:29 am

Yep, Z170 has a couple of native USB2's, the replacement Z270 chipset however in a lot of cases doesn't.

jdnz
KVRian
806 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:18 am

Kaine wrote:Yep, Z170 has a couple of native USB2's, the replacement Z270 chipset however in a lot of cases doesn't.
the gigabyte z270x-ud3 still has 4 usb2.0 ports via a standard usb2 header (non on the back panel) - you'd just need either a case with usb2 ports to hook to it, or a suitable slot insert with ports on it.

hyperscientist
KVRist
74 posts since 2 Mar, 2015

Re: problems with USB Hardware on USB3.0/3.1? instead of USB2.0?

Post Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:50 am

I own macbook with only USB 3.1 Type-C connectors (so it's further complication because I need adapters) and use plenty of usb midi gear and it all works fine, latency is normal, there are no dropouts. I actually connect all my gear through a usb hub (elektron overhub - it's ridiculously overpriced, but it was an impulse buy after first and then second hub started dropping connections). Among those usb midi devices is a seaboard rise and audient id14 interface running at 96khz so I imagine that these are rather heavy bandwidth-wise and yet - no problems. I am so confident in this configuration that I don't even care to connect moog minitaur directly to a computer when updating firmware. I personally wouldn't sweat.

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