New Mac Mini

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.
Sascha Franck
KVRAF
12492 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:33 pm

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... -base.html

You may start reading towards the end of the thread. In the beginning, there's little Mac folks.
I have done tests myself, too, all with the same result. A dedicated decent driver beats Core Audio by a mile.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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jancivil
KVRAF
17504 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:52 pm

I don't know anything. This is where my approach comes from today. I just found myself asserting a couple years back the same thing you are.
But it seems to me, particularly after some reading, that a hardware device added on is just an extra API, I don't get (I don't know) why extra is more efficient. You're saying the Hardware Abstraction Layer is crap and needs an intervention?

I've already thrown money at this as a supposed problem; a Steinberg interface as though it's supposed to communicate something something ASIO.
I'm an idiot. But there was no difference I could report at all. So I couldn't really say these _Mac_ drivers did anything.

http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/de ... ion_3.html

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jancivil
KVRAF
17504 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:07 pm

I'm not trying to make any argument at all, I don't know why this should be, is _all_.

Ok, the GS thread has this on its next-to-last page:

The full title is clear. This thread is about Vin's Low Latency Performance Data Base. It only contains measurements for Windows. This thread is most definitely about interfaces on Windows.

The Mac measurements are pretty much useless as there are no performance benchmarks to compare to.

So, I'm not doing that one.

Sascha Franck
KVRAF
12492 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:16 pm

jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:07 pm
I'm not trying to make any argument at all, I don't know why this should be, is _all_.

Ok, the GS thread has this on its next-to-last page:

The full title is clear. This thread is about Vin's Low Latency Performance Data Base. It only contains measurements for Windows. This thread is most definitely about interfaces on Windows.

The Mac measurements are pretty much useless as there are no performance benchmarks to compare to.

So, I'm not doing that one.
Well, you can chose to believe whatever you want.
Fact is, many companies are too lazy or don't want to spend money on dedicated driver development. As a result, they often either license a pretty generic 3rd party driver or use whatever the OS has on offer. Which works more or less well with OSX and Core Audio. Yet, in case a company DOES deliver decent drivers, the performance figures are a lot better. I have a Zoom UAC-2 which offers both a driver and USB classs compliant mode - so I can compare the two options next to each other. Using CC mode, the performance is about identical with the Behringer I tested. Lowest stable buffersize is 64 samples. With the dedicated driver the latency is reduced by around 2ms using the same settings, PLUS I can run things at 32 samples all throughout.
As said, nobody's forcing you to believe anything, but then you should rather not come up with wild assumptions how things couldn't be like that with additional layers of whatever, which must introduce worse performance. It's just not true.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:23 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:13 pm
jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:09 pm
I'm using the onboard drivers. I don't see how an audio interface provides better than Core Audio native.
They just do. Almost always. Core Audio isn't all that much better than ASIO4All.
Core Audio is WORLDS better than ASIO4All. I have no compatibility issues, no latency problems, no noise, no clipping, and no conflicts using Core Audio. I wouldn’t even notice that I’m not using the dedicated drivers except that my sound comes out of a different device. I cannot say the same for Windows’ various audio driver models or for ASIO4All (one of the reasons I’m glad to be off that platform now).

If 2ms less latency is that important to you, then congrats that you can have it with your dedicated drivers. Maybe I just don’t do enough live audio recording & monitoring for it to matter much. I only notice latency when recording my own voice, with headphones on my head for monitoring. It’s tolerable. Maybe it could be better. Dunno. I don’t have a decent room, so all my audio is already sub-par. Shrug.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

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jancivil
KVRAF
17504 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:11 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:16 pm
jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:07 pm
I'm not trying to make any argument at all, I don't know why this should be, is _all_.

Ok, the GS thread has this on its next-to-last page:

The full title is clear. This thread is about Vin's Low Latency Performance Data Base. It only contains measurements for Windows. This thread is most definitely about interfaces on Windows.

The Mac measurements are pretty much useless as there are no performance benchmarks to compare to.

So, I'm not doing that one.
Well, you can chose to believe whatever you want.
I was pretty f**king clear about this, I said I wasn't even trying to make any argument. Wait, it's RIGHT THERE IN YOUR QUOTE!!

The best you did for me amounts to exactly nothing of any use whatsoever. A thread on a forum about Windows performance.

:roll:

then you should rather not come up with wild assumptions how things couldn't be like that with additional layers of whatever
I'm asking a question, to which you evidently do not have an answer except to make more assertions. I want to know. I don't. I said I don't. Thanks for wasting my time with that thread. :clap:

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jancivil
KVRAF
17504 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:17 pm

YOU should not "come up with" twisting what a person said in order to merely be a dick.
It looks to me like you can't tell me anything about my question, is the HAL needing intervention? It's a vague supposition, from an idiot, in my own words, from the position of not_knowing.

In your own words, you don't seem able to say anything so I had to waste my time - this pisses me off, I mean to be clear here - with a thread where nothing happens pertinent to my question.

I don't have any "belief" at all.

Sascha Franck
KVRAF
12492 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:26 pm

jancivil wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:11 pm
The best you did for me amounts to exactly nothing of any use whatsoever. A thread on a forum about Windows performance.
There's *plenty* of information about low latency performance on Macs in that thread by now as well.
You decide not to read it? Fine. But don't blame me.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

Sascha Franck
KVRAF
12492 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:28 pm

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:23 pm
Core Audio is WORLDS better than ASIO4All.
Not necessarily. Generally, yes, likely. But it always depends on the chipset used for the interface. Some of them just don't work well with Core Audio but you can get ok-ish results with ASIO4All (I had an all in one keyboard/audiointerface combo for mobile duties for a while and had to trash it when I moved to OSX back then, worked nicely with ASIO4All).
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
4936 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:05 am

Sascha Franck wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:28 pm
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:23 pm
Core Audio is WORLDS better than ASIO4All.
Not necessarily. Generally, yes, likely. But it always depends on the chipset used for the interface. Some of them just don't work well with Core Audio but you can get ok-ish results with ASIO4All (I had an all in one keyboard/audiointerface combo for mobile duties for a while and had to trash it when I moved to OSX back then, worked nicely with ASIO4All).
It might be that the developer did a poor job of supporting the class.

Also, ASIO4All isn’t a device driver on its own. It’s middleware. It uses the preexisting WDM driver of the device you want to use as an ASIO device.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

stratum
KVRAF
2234 posts since 29 May, 2012

Re: New Mac Mini

Post Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:49 pm

Asio4All is OK as long as you do not use it to combine multiple audio interfaces into one (like having recording from one interface and playback on another).
~stratum~

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