New Mac Pro 2019

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Passing Bye
KVRian
1090 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:22 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:50 am
Passing Bye wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:59 am
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:19 am
What is competetive, is when you try to build a workstation on your own with off-the-shelf components.
One branded off the shelf professional desktop workstation is competitive with another, building your own one with consumer grade parts really aren't, it's just common sense logic.
Nope, it's just naive. Electronics is electronics, it has nothing to do with "professional grade". Same parts can be ordered by average Joe and assembled for a fraction of this cost. This is not proprietary, military-grade or otherwise restricted gear. It's just marketing :roll:
We are talking about branded off the shelf desktop workstations here, if you or any average Joe can build same part for part machines for fraction of the cost, maybe you should start new company and sell and service those.
Googly Smythe wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:39 am
Somedays it seems like we're not allowed to dislike anything.

simonbostock
KVRist
162 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from London Acid City

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:17 am

I think you'll find that the price of the Mac Pro for the market it has been priced quite competitively and I don't think anyone actually does a screen like Apple does at the moment. They are classing the Pro market like for example Hollywood Production Studios and Video Game Production Markets alike which is not the "market" that probably 99% of us are in (home studios/small studios etc).

However, you'll find that some of the add-on equipment and accessories sold in the Production Studio market (camera stands etc) is really expensive so in comparison, Apple isn't actually mega overcharging their products in what they call the "Pro" market. Apple isn't going to sell many, but they are meeting the market demand from what they are classing the "Pro" customer base.

For the rest of us like me, its either Mac Minis or Macbook Pros and I'd be surprised if they have the Mac Pros on display in the Apple stores.

And yes, we could all go hackintosh and buy Dune Pro cases to put them in, but it's not quite the same - even if the compute might be there or there' abouts.

PS. But the Ram/SSD upgrade costs is taking the piss though. :)
Last edited by simonbostock on Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

Passing Bye
KVRian
1090 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:23 am

simonbostock wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:17 am
I think you'll find that the price of the Mac Pro for the market it has been priced quite competitively and I don't think anyone actually does a screen like Apple does at the moment. They are classing the Pro market as Production Studios and alike which is not the "market" that probably 99% of us are in (home studios/small studios etc).

However, you'll find that some of the add-on equipment and accessories sold in the Production Studio market (camera stands etc) is really expensive so in comparison, Apple isn't actually mega overcharging their products in what they call the "Pro" market. Apple isn't going to sell many, but they are meeting the market demand from the Production Studio customer base.

For the rest of us like me, its either Mac Minis or Macbook Pros.
You have the point, they targeted most demanding user's only with their new desktop tower solution and they expect others to jump from old Mac Pro's to Mini's and iMac's now... guess if one isn't using Logic and want proper desktop tower, probably it's the time to reconsider some things.
Googly Smythe wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:39 am
Somedays it seems like we're not allowed to dislike anything.

simonbostock
KVRist
162 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from London Acid City

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:26 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:23 am
simonbostock wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:17 am
I think you'll find that the price of the Mac Pro for the market it has been priced quite competitively and I don't think anyone actually does a screen like Apple does at the moment. They are classing the Pro market as Production Studios and alike which is not the "market" that probably 99% of us are in (home studios/small studios etc).

However, you'll find that some of the add-on equipment and accessories sold in the Production Studio market (camera stands etc) is really expensive so in comparison, Apple isn't actually mega overcharging their products in what they call the "Pro" market. Apple isn't going to sell many, but they are meeting the market demand from the Production Studio customer base.

For the rest of us like me, its either Mac Minis or Macbook Pros.
You have the point, they targeted most demanding user's only with their new desktop tower solution and they expect others to jump from old Mac Pro's to Mini's and iMac's now... guess if one isn't using Logic and want proper desktop tower, probably it's the time to reconsider some things.
Exactly, a 2019 iMac or a Mac Mini or even the 16" Macbook Pro is going to be enough for the majority of us who just use Logic/Cubase/Ableton etc.

Passing Bye
KVRian
1090 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:28 am

For sure.
Googly Smythe wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:39 am
Somedays it seems like we're not allowed to dislike anything.

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5685 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:02 am

jdnz wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:26 am
christian f. wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:39 pm
BerryLaCroix wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:16 pm
Plenty of really good, color-calibrated screens around too that are *not* from Apple


Could you give some examples please ?
Benq sw320
That’s not at a high PPI, though, is it?
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5685 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:28 am

simonbostock wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:26 am
Exactly, a 2019 iMac or a Mac Mini or even the 16" Macbook Pro is going to be enough for the majority of us who just use Logic/Cubase/Ableton etc.
What if you want to do music in Logic... and also do photography on a high-PPI display... and maybe get back to 3D rendering... AND do some moderate gaming on your “blow off steam” recreation time... all on one computer?

I want a single computer and display for all of this. NOT a disposable all-in-one with thermal constraints/risks. I want a reliable, first-party high-PPI display that’s NOT glued to a machine.

I DON’T want to buy a Mac mini & display for Logic & photography (which I would have to buy maxed out up front due to soldered-in storage and RAM... which is a computer I wouldn’t trust on doing constant HOT workloads like 3D rendering)... AND ALSO buy another PC & display just to have a recreational gaming machine (eGPUs aren’t supported on Bootcamp Windows, so that’s not an option).

Apple have decided that there are only two markets:

1. End consumers and hobbyists who don’t run things hot for very long (if ever), who are willing and able to replace their $2500 computer every 3 years as Apple discontinues software support (yes, it’s getting that bad, especially if you want to live in Apple’s integrated ecosystem)

2. Major studios that can justify $6000 on each workstation... plus a display

There’s no middle ground. There’s no room at Apple for small business, low-income prosumers/hobbyists who need modular workstations that can survive running CPU and GPU at 100% for hours at a time.

Apple product was never cheap, but it was at least accessible to people who saved a bit and prioritized Mac OS & well-built hardware over cheapness. It hasn’t been accessible for years, and it’s continuing to get worse. Apple are entirely out of touch with the world outside the Silicon Valley/Hollywood corporate ivory towers.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

simonbostock
KVRist
162 posts since 14 Sep, 2004 from London Acid City

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:02 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:28 am
simonbostock wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:26 am
Exactly, a 2019 iMac or a Mac Mini or even the 16" Macbook Pro is going to be enough for the majority of us who just use Logic/Cubase/Ableton etc.
What if you want to do music in Logic... and also do photography on a high-PPI display... and maybe get back to 3D rendering... AND do some moderate gaming on your “blow off steam” recreation time... all on one computer?
Then you're very a clever person :hug:

No seriously, if you're doing it as a profession then your company will pay for the equipment. If it's a hobby, then it's probably out of your price range? Until the cost of High-PPI displays come down or if other manufacturers start mass-producing them then you're stuck with what you've got.

Honestly, Hackintosh is probably the only the middle-ground if you want to stick with MacOS.

And yes, Apple is expensive, but generally, I find that they last longer. My MBP 2013 is still used on the road with Logic so I'm not sure what you mean by 3-year software support. If I had a Acer laptop (for example), it'll probably need upgrading after 4-5 years. They do charge more, but they're actually quite competitive based on longevity/product spec/software. To me its not just a laptop, its a work tool.
Last edited by simonbostock on Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

Passing Bye
KVRian
1090 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:06 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:28 am
Apple have decided that there are only two markets:

1. End consumers and hobbyists who don’t run things hot for very long (if ever), who are willing and able to replace their $2500 computer every 3 years as Apple discontinues software support (yes, it’s getting that bad, especially if you want to live in Apple’s integrated ecosystem)

2. Major studios that can justify $6000 on each workstation... plus a display

There’s no middle ground. There’s no room at Apple for small business, low-income prosumers/hobbyists who need modular workstations that can survive running CPU and GPU at 100% for hours at a time.

Apple product was never cheap, but it was at least accessible to people who saved a bit and prioritized Mac OS & well-built hardware over cheapness. It hasn’t been accessible for years, and it’s continuing to get worse. Apple are entirely out of touch with the world outside the Silicon Valley/Hollywood corporate ivory towers.
Spot on!
Googly Smythe wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:39 am
Somedays it seems like we're not allowed to dislike anything.

jdnz
KVRian
819 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:28 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:14 am
jdnz wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:28 am
People who freak about macpro prices have obviously never purchased high end dell precision or hp z8 series workstations - it’s quite easy to spec either of them such they cost 2-4 times the cost of a maxed out macpro
Which ones precisely?

https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desktops ... #!&tab=vao

Highest price: 5599 USD.

Oops, someone has been ripped :nutter:
those are stock basic configs with things like i7s - go into the custom configurator, spec a pair of 28 core xeons, 3 decent GPUs and 1.5tb and watch the price

ditto for the precision - sure you can buy it with an i7/i9 and it’s quite cheap - again go to the custom config tool, spec a pair of the big xeons and 3 high end GPUs just for laughs option 3tb of ram - suddenly you’ll consider the macpro ‘cheap’
Last edited by jdnz on Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

jdnz
KVRian
819 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:33 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:41 am
I still would like to see these high-end specs, as apparently they're not on HP official website.
here ya go - option a pair of 8280 xeons, three gv100s and 3tb of RAM and check the price (then keep adding things like a decent amount of nvme etc)

https://www.dell.com/en-nz/work/shop/de ... 3e3ac45433

jdnz
KVRian
819 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:36 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:19 am
Intel Xeons are already inferior to Threadrippers. It also has only HDD storage and no GPU apparently...
you are obviously not very conversant with machines designed for massive workflows - if you did you won’t be comparing a threadripper to a xeon (for a start no MP on threadripper). Maybe if you compared Epyc to Xeon....

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fmr
KVRAF
9162 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:09 am

jdnz wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:36 am
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:19 am
Intel Xeons are already inferior to Threadrippers. It also has only HDD storage and no GPU apparently...
you are obviously not very conversant with machines designed for massive workflows - if you did you won’t be comparing a threadripper to a xeon (for a start no MP on threadripper). Maybe if you compared Epyc to Xeon....
What's the advantage of the Xeon W? According to THIS SITE it doesn't beat the i9 :shrug:
Fernando (FMR)

User avatar
DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3614 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:11 am

you won’t be comparing a threadripper to a xeon
Intel doesn't have anything comparable to Threadripper ATM. But that's another story, and fairly fresh.
here ya go - option a pair of 8280 xeons, three gv100s and 3tb of RAM and check the price (then keep adding things like a decent amount of nvme etc)

https://www.dell.com/en-nz/work/shop/de ... 3e3ac45433
Thanks. Now we're talking.

That tops the Mac by far.

Still, 2/3 of the price is absurd 3 TB RAM. I'd love someone to explain what kind of workload could realistically use that much (except constantly leaking software running for a year :P).

But the most important thing - if we are talking about "professionals", they need to make money. Again, I'd like to know what use case would generate so much revenue that would justify such high investements (over much cheaper alternatives). Here's a difference between personal workstation used by professional(s) and server running for years, serving thousands of customers.
Last edited by DJ Warmonger on Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AnX
KVRAF
6159 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: New Mac Pro 2019

Post Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:23 am


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