Why does Microsoft hate us (#@$ Windows 10)

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GRRRRRRR!
12302 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:06 pm

No it doesn't. As recently as last month I reset my old Surface Pro 2 and created an new user without a Microsoft account so a friend of mine could use it while his Macbook is away for (expensive) repairs. It's not a problem at all. It's been 5 or 6 weeks now and, AFAIK he hasn't had to create a Microsoft account yet. And AFAIK Microsoft has no idea when I was born (but it does know my mother's maiden name and it has my phone no. for two factor authentication).
CrystalWizard wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:04 pm
I use Libre Office for spreadsheets and the like. Today i tried to open a spreadsheet in Libre Office and got a splash page to sign up for Office 365. Wtf? No, i don’t want Office 365 hence i changed all the file defaults. Ok, annoying enough but when i close out it drops me into another similar page. Best part: when i close out of the second page it just closes up and i’m left on my desktop.
It's not much worse that what Google does when you try to use any of their services without an account. I'm sure Microsoft just do it because everyone else does. Blame regulators.
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KVRian
1359 posts since 16 Apr, 2004

Post Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:30 pm

mixyguy2 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:16 pm
As for "bitching," if I think a product sucks, I'm going to say so. Excuse me for having an opinion. If you don't like it, go elsewhere or simply don't read my posts.
and i believe you yourself stated that your opinion does not make it a fact. i'm just pointing out that you have an unfair opinion. if you don't like it, go elsewhere or don't read my posts. :lol:
Yeah Win 10 sucking is all my fault, that's the ticket.
did i say that? weak argument if you need to put words in my mouth.
Maybe you should consider that there are plenty of other people who are suffering bad experiences. It's not like I'm some isolated rare case.
i'm perfectly aware that people have problems with Windows. There are over a billion users. Name any complex product that doesn't. The question is whether your proclaiming that it sucks makes it so.
I give up, what the hell are you talking about? I never said everyone has the same experience as me. You really need to work on your reading comprehension.
seems to me this applies to you. another trick of people with weak arguments. :clap:
and on a side note: SSD are fairly mainstream for quite a while now. Are you somewhere remote such that you might not realize this?
Yes, they are now, but that is a relatively recent transition. It wasn't long ago they were only in more expensive machines.
and yet you pretended this is relevant now. :dog:

KVRAF
1785 posts since 2 Jul, 2010

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:16 am

While it is possible to avoid creating a Microsoft account on Windows 10 if you are persistent and look around the screen for the small text... I have been finding that, increasingly often, it prompts me to create one when booting up the system. Which is very annoying, because that system is configured as a games machine with a joystick and doesn't usually even have a mouse plugged in. And the "go away" button is not "I do not want this", it's "remind me again soon".

It's an unfriendly design, and very much looks like a slide towards making this stuff mandatory. :scared:

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KVRAF
3206 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Everywhere and nowhere, baby

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:08 am

Having read most of this topic, I've come to the conclusion that I must be using a different Win 10 to every one else. My machine is a 7 year old, i7 4790-based machine. I've since replaced all the HDDs and the GPU, everything else is original.
I get no prompts to set up a MS account, no OS crashes, no update issues (they're paused, so happen when I'm ready, as does the reboot), no problems. I get a prompt asking if I want to use Edge, but only after I update my browser. Once a month Defender prompts me to turn on auto sample submission. That's it. :shrug:
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KVRer
22 posts since 24 Apr, 2021

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:28 am

Ditto (well, I get the odd issue with an update refusing to install, but it's been good for months now). No messages from Defender, Microsoft, OneDrive, Office365 or anything. Never have.

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KVRian
864 posts since 6 Jun, 2016 from San Marcos, Texas

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:55 am

I read all these comments and think 'wow, look where Windows had led.' I also think to myself, the writing was on the wall, years ago. I'm talking the mid-late nineties.
I vividly recall a friend back then who would point out various little things about Windows, which he called "push technology". He'd say "do you feel the push?". Hah, of course, I'd casually dismiss his assertions with silly assertions of my own, but boy I stand corrected. He later went on to become a really talented developer ...

Anyway, Windows fulfilled virtually all of those fears. They're even alienating their rank & file users of late. I've had several friends contact me within the past year about switching over to Linux. It's something I shy away from, honestly. Although it doesn't take much to discourage them--not because switching is impossible for them, but the convenience sacrifice is just too much for them in the near term. Basically, they don't have the willpower to do it, despite their instincts to run.

Anyway, this will only get worse, mark my words. People who want to escape should do so sooner than later.

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KVRAF
1512 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:45 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:06 pm
CrystalWizard wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:04 pm
I use Libre Office for spreadsheets and the like. Today i tried to open a spreadsheet in Libre Office and got a splash page to sign up for Office 365. Wtf? No, i don’t want Office 365 hence i changed all the file defaults. Ok, annoying enough but when i close out it drops me into another similar page. Best part: when i close out of the second page it just closes up and i’m left on my desktop.
It's not much worse that what Google does when you try to use any of their services without an account. I'm sure Microsoft just do it because everyone else does. Blame regulators.
It’s really not ok (with me) just because the ad giant google does it too. And , no, i’ll blame it on MS and google. It’s absurd the level of intrusiveness that is acceptable (not to mention the level of incompetence) that so many people are comfortable with.
Saying “switch to Linux then, or MacOS”, is an silly thing when considering the time, and compatibility issues. All i am saying is that compared to W7, W10 sux, In My Opinion. Many of the reasons have been stated in this thread but if i wanted to i could make a longer list. The only advantage i can see so far (now that i have both) is that W10 is perhaps a bit more stable (even that it’s a small difference and i have far fewer things running on my W10 machine this far so less to go wrong).
Something i’m not sure has mentioned is there are indeed different version of W10 and then (as Bones has commented there are many different OEM configs of W10). I’m sure i’d be a lot happier with the Enterprise edition.
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KVRAF
13037 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:55 pm

imrae wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:16 am
While it is possible to avoid creating a Microsoft account on Windows 10 if you are persistent and look around the screen for the small text... I have been finding that, increasingly often, it prompts me to create one when booting up the system. Which is very annoying, because that system is configured as a games machine with a joystick and doesn't usually even have a mouse plugged in. And the "go away" button is not "I do not want this", it's "remind me again soon".

It's an unfriendly design, and very much looks like a slide towards making this stuff mandatory. :scared:
This is on purpose AFAIK. The trick, which still works with Win10, is to boot without networking and then skip the additional setup. At that point it will ask you to create a local account.

Ok, on reading that through, I only see the forced ms account when you install Win10, not when you are just booting. I do have a Windows account, there are a number of things that you can't do without them. However, that's not the issue for me. The issue is that I want a local account name that is standard across my different machines.

I'm running Linux only for work machines now. I still have to use Windows and OS X for music, but that's a minority of machines. I'll be eliminating Windows for music machines by the time Win10 is no longer supported.

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GRRRRRRR!
12302 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:10 pm

I've got a Microsoft account because I've had Hotmail since 1996. I never needed a Google account until I got an Android phone last year but I honestly don't remember what my user name is, much less my password. But Google remembers and automatically logs me into YouTube so it can track me better.
CrystalWizard wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:45 am
It’s absurd the level of intrusiveness that is acceptable (not to mention the level of incompetence) that so many people are comfortable with.
But it's not acceptable. I don't know about where you live but data laws here in Australia are very, very strict and the fines for breaching them are massive. Nobody can collect your data without your specific consent and every time they want to use or share it, they must get your consent again.

The reality is that most of the data Microsoft collect is anonymous, it can't be tracked back to any individual. Where they collect data that can be identified to individuals, they ask permission because the law insists that they must. Its not a free-for-all, Google and Apple and Amazon and Facebook are all in the same boat.

And if you think they aren't tracking you on Win7, you are deluded. Do you know why they came up with the Start Screen in Windows 8? It was because the billions of keystrokes they had collected anonymously from every Windows 7 user showed them that nobody was using the Start Menu any more. Some tasks were down by 80% compared to XP, which shows that even as far back as XP, Microsoft were collecting your usage data. The difference would be that, back then, the didn't have to tell you they were collecting your data, today they do.
All i am saying is that compared to W7, W10 sux, In My Opinion.
Then your opinion is worthless, not based in any level of objective reality. Because, as I said, it uses one-third fewer system resources than Win7, which frees up more computing power for your applications. I'd also suggest that the vast majority of tasks that you perform most regularly can be done faster, with fewer keystrokes/actions, In W10 than in W7, thanks to all the new hotkey combos and right-click menus.
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KVRAF
4224 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Post Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:05 pm

mixyguy2 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:25 pm
Thinking Win 7 sucked and actually preferring Win 8.1 over 10 speaks for itself.
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KVRAF
1512 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:07 am

highkoo wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:05 pm
mixyguy2 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:25 pm
Thinking Win 7 sucked and actually preferring Win 8.1 over 10 speaks for itself.
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KVRAF
1512 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit Sol III

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:42 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:10 pm
I've got a Microsoft account because I've had Hotmail since 1996. I never needed a Google account until I got an Android phone last year but I honestly don't remember what my user name is, much less my password. But Google remembers and automatically logs me into YouTube so it can track me better.
Indeed, the ad giant google is worse.
CrystalWizard wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:45 am
It’s absurd the level of intrusiveness that is acceptable (not to mention the level of incompetence) that so many people are comfortable with.
But it's not acceptable. I don't know about where you live but data laws here in Australia are very, very strict and the fines for breaching them are massive. Nobody can collect your data without your specific consent and every time they want to use or share it, they must get your consent again.

The reality is that most of the data Microsoft collect is anonymous, it can't be tracked back to any individual. Where they collect data that can be identified to individuals, they ask permission because the law insists that they must. Its not a free-for-all, Google and Apple and Amazon and Facebook are all in the same boat.

And if you think they aren't tracking you on Win7, you are deluded. Do you know why they came up with the Start Screen in Windows 8? It was because the billions of keystrokes they had collected anonymously from every Windows 7 user showed them that nobody was using the Start Menu any more. Some tasks were down by 80% compared to XP, which shows that even as far back as XP, Microsoft were collecting your usage data. The difference would be that, back then, the didn't have to tell you they were collecting your data, today they do.
Two things:
Are you telling me that MS collects less telemetry in W10 than they did in W7?
Do you really think all that anonymized data is really anonomyous? Ever heard of digital fingerprinting?
Here google is the worst offender but…
CrystalWizard: All i am saying is that compared to W7, W10 sux, In My Opinion.
Bones:
Then your opinion is worthless, not based in any level of objective reality.
Hahaha, i’m glad we got that cleared up right away. No, my opinion isn’t worthless, and it is based on some objective reality. Just because you aren’t aware of that reality doesn’t effect the value of my opinion
Bones:
Because, as I said, it uses one-third fewer system resources than Win7, which frees up more computing power for your applications. I'd also suggest that the vast majority of tasks that you perform most regularly can be done faster, with fewer keystrokes/actions, In W10 than in W7, thanks to all the new hotkey combos and right-click menus.
This (the fewer resources being used) i will look into further but a quick perusal of the interwebs did not bear that out but more research is called for. One thing W10 has going for it is the ability to handle large amounts of RAM. So, that’s something. But overall my opinion is that W10 sux based on the intrusiveness, “telemetry”, bloat, the forced often borked updates (mostly just the first few years it seems), and general bs.
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KVRian
1060 posts since 4 Aug, 2017

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:23 am

Time to look at Linux...

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GRRRRRRR!
12302 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:10 pm

CrystalWizard wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:42 am
Are you telling me that MS collects less telemetry in W10 than they did in W7?
Does it matter? They are collecting it and always have been but I'd suggest before data laws came into force, its' likely what they were collecting before was unconstrained
Do you really think all that anonymized data is really anonomyous? Ever heard of digital fingerprinting?
Of course it is, how could they possibly manage it otherwise? They'd have to devote 90% of their resources to it and for what? What do you think they are getting from it?
Here google is the worst offender but…
Hahaha, i’m glad we got that cleared up right away. No, my opinion isn’t worthless, and it is based on some objective reality. Just because you aren’t aware of that reality doesn’t effect the value of my opinion
See, this is where your opinion becomes worthless. I am completely aware of the scope of what they are doing but I am equally aware of the value of it (bugger-all) and the laws which constrain them in what they can do with it. Seriously, they can collect whatever they like from me, I couldn't care less. What are they going to do with it? And at least Microsoft pays me for the data they collect, unlike Google.
One thing W10 has going for it is the ability to handle large amounts of RAM.
That's a 64 bit OS, 64 bit XP should be able to handle the same.
the forced often borked updates (mostly just the first few years it seems), and general bs.
"Often"!?! Spare me days! I'm an Insider, I get beta versions and in the whole time I have been using/testing Win10, I have had exactly one issue - it reassigned the drive letter to a microSD card during the update process, which I fixed by changing it back to what it was. Hardly a problem.
You have to remember that if you read about 100,000 people having an issue, that is about 0.01% of users. The chance of it affecting you is almost nothing. You have to put these things in perspective and., above all, use you common sense.
Last edited by BONES on Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KVRAF
5745 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:41 pm

mixyguy2 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:23 am
omg this thing is annoying. I feel like I've had like 800 patches I was *forced* to install just this year...and the latest, I installed one just yesterday...and this morning it tells me I need yet ANOTHER update. Are you kidding me? Linux compatibilities are a pain but so is this, I'm seriously considering the switch. Or even upgrading to Win 7. arghh...

Anyone on Linux, how bad have compatibility issues been for you with plugins, DAWS, etc? And what do you use for a UI? Wine? (The software I mean, the drink is a given lol)
I have not read entire thread - but found a tip for Sledgehammer which is a script that does whatever needed to stop updates.

I've had a windows 10 home laptop for 10 months, and installed sledgehammer over 6 months ago - and no updates still.

But as daw computer I use windows 7 and decided to stay there. Dropped all ideas to get a newer faster computer.

I consider windows 10 spyware - that is what it is.
And interface is flawed on the built in stuff that replaced usuall menues, these weird tab system on file explorer etc.

Weird choices to expect you to know just start typing when doing Windows button - to search - instead of showing a search field right away. I looked and looked where is option to search. And all searches are made towards internet basically until you go to Documents tab. The simplest things just complicated, like finding exe-files you want to make shortcuts too - don't expect to just rightclick in menues.

And to search computer, OMG, it took forever - and this has a SSD. What was going on was these bloated to search content of everything just about after words - not just file names. In windows 7 this was easily configured in index options - you rightclick and tell on each folder node if to search content too - and done. In windows 10 this was moved to file explorer in some remote menu. I spent days actually to do a fast search through computer, now it works pretty well.

Edge logs entire computer in, if you log into Microsoft account to do store purchases for xbox - why?
Everything is synced to their cloud crap if you do etc until you turned things off. So you have to use 3rd party browser just to login to store, or entire computer is logged in. All your private stuff synced to their cloud etc, until you realise how to configure - but then too late. All you email address books etc are now in MS disposal.

If you plug headphones into computer - up comes a big blob dialog telling you "you plugged something in, what do you want to do with that" etc. I turned off all kinds of notifications or you get this all the time.

You go to control panel and look for things, but they are moved to Settings instead. You had everything there before - now bloated to something less user friendly. At first control panel on windows 7 was a lot to figure out - but once you learned it. The one thing they did well on windows 10 was search field to filter settings/panel accordingly - they could just have added that and done.

Windows is really gone downhill with windows 10 IMO.

I had loads of issues with this Asus Vivobook laptop, that I thought was windows 10 issues at first, but after a 10 month of updates to various drivers from Asus site it is almost ok. Still sudden freezes to do hardware reset almost once a day, so not a good computer. I had another Asus laptop, UL30A, since 2009, and never had an issue with it. As delivered in sept 2020 this Vivobook was really beta on everything - froze 4-5 times a day even at boot.

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