KVR Audio

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:53 pm

I'm really strongly considering switching to the Mac for the next few years. I know that many now only use laptops and then only connect a larger monitor.
With which Intel CPU can you compare the more recent M1 Macbooks (13 inch)? I haven't heard of DAW Benchmark for a long time, I don't know if there are any more recent tests there?

keyman_sam · Post by **keyman_sam** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:58 pm

The value proposition for PCs dropped when M1 got released. You'll now be overpaying for a PC than if you went with the cheapest Mac mini.

That is unless you score a really good audio PC in the used market. Or if you want to stick to windows for SW compatibility.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:00 pm

Intel i5-11400 is comparable in multi core performance, but still M1 is stronger in single core. Also devs did optimization for Apple Silicon chips that maybe should perform different for audio related tasks, than what would some benchmarks suggest.

viewtopic.php?t=562890

Maybe go for M1 Mac Mini, you probably already got great display and peripherals.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:23 pm

Very interesting. There I expect a very high performance for audio production with the M1 Macbook. The laptop should be head and shoulders above my desktop machine with the i7-3770.

Windows and compatibility with specific Windows software is not really that important to me. All the plugins I have are also available for the Mac and Cubase also runs on the M1 (not yet natively but on the emulation).
But since Microsoft has very specific requirements for the next Windows 11, I'll probably need new hardware anyway.
Probably even the Mac Mini M1 would be an option...

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:31 pm

I got i7 3770 too, yeah, M1 would be quite an update, I’m torn between M1 or comprable Intel/AMD option, Bitwig is native and majority of my plugins.

hitherepeople · Post by **hitherepeople** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:47 pm

4damind wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:23 pm All the plugins I have are also available for the Mac and Cubase also runs on the M1 (not yet natively but on the emulation).

This seems to be the #1 problem right now. I've got my eyes open to a mac mini as well. I don't have any windows only plugs/hosts.

I too would like to see more discussion because if the M1 is what I think it might be, that may be reason enough to jump ship (though my windows experience has been delightfully strong)

But again, more information is needed.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:55 pm

It depends on your workflow. As of today the Ryzen 5950x is the best performer for low latency and for raw single core and multithreaded audio tasks but that doesn't mean it makes sense to every user. If you don't need that power it would be a waste of good money. If you are happy with a slowly expanding roll out of m1 compatible plugins and you don't use a lot of sample libraries an m1 mac mini would make you smile no doubt. The upcoming (rumoured) Apple 40 core machines will likely be the top of heap and will readily beat the Ryzens but they won't be cheap. I will keep an eye on things . I expect my 5950x will do my fine for 7 years or more. I've been running PCs and Macs in my studio and still have an SE30 with Cubase installed along with some G4s and severals Imacs. My main DAW has been PC based for the last 12 years. I am not religious about this stuff. What works works best within your budget? That is all that matters.

hitherepeople · Post by **hitherepeople** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:02 pm

I don't mind shelling for the Ryzen at all. I just can't seem to get good real-world performance value vs. what I have. I'm well aware that it's technically far superior. But how many instances of Oberhausen can I run realistically w/o my CPU meter spiking? There's no way to test one. It seems as though no matter how many cores you get, hungry plugs bog up the first core.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:40 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:55 pm As of today the Ryzen 5950x is the best performer for low latency and for raw single core and multithreaded audio tasks but that doesn't mean it makes sense to every user.

Care to share any further info and benchmarks to back up those claims, mainstream benchmarks shows that M1 outperforms it in single core performance and they aren't comparable in multi core obviously, but seems like whole Apple Silicon architecture is better deal for audio, already provided testing done by Blue Cat's developer and seem like Urs from U He did some great stuff too.

I'm interested in Ryzen 5 5600X mostly, do you have any info how it stacks up to 5950X, seems like single core performance is similar and of course 5950X have more cores and have more juice, but as both are same series Zen 3, is it pretty much the same deal for low latency audio? I think yes, but want to confirm.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:45 pm

I honestly haven't seen any direct audio comparisons at all with the M1 vs AMD or Intel. DAWBench would be interesting but as I mentioned, I haven't found anything up to date at all.

If I understand correctly, all the plugins and software that also worked on the Intel Mac are working in an emulation (which certainly costs a little performance)? There are also relatively few plugins that only run on the PC, e.g. Synthedit/Synthmaker... but I don't use those plugins anyway.

With older Intel CPUs like my i7-3770 you surely don't need benchmarks, everything is better

Although I must say that even my CPU is quite sufficient, I would not necessarily need more power (only in video editing my CPU + GPU is a bit weak).

I don't use much samples but with USB3/USB4 or Thunderbolt I wouldn't worry about an external hard drive. That's why I could also imagine a Mac Mini M1 (I would say that I don't need a desktop PC/Mac)

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:23 pm

4damind wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:45 pm Although I must say that even my CPU is quite sufficient, I would not necessarily need more power.

Same, don't look to spend more than 1000 bucks on new machine, most modern 6 cores are more than enough for my needs and M1 Mini also.

Seems like market is quite unstable these days and prices of some components started going up, if that trend continues, guess I would side with M1 Mini, especially considering the info that Silicon native compiled and optimized plugins outperform their Intel/AMD versions.

hitherepeople · Post by **hitherepeople** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:46 pm

Yeah, I'm trying to stay around a grand too, but that threadripper is TEMPTING.

There was a dude on youtube (I know, take it with a grain of salt) who had a company send him a pre-built threadripper and he did the side by side with an intel that is rather new that he owns. In his test, he was able to get double the tracks/plugs out of it. That's impressive, and quite frankly put me on the path to wanting a new computer.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:01 pm

hitherepeople wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:46 pm Yeah, I'm trying to stay around a grand too, but that threadripper is TEMPTING.

There was a dude on youtube (I know, take it with a grain of salt) who had a company send him a pre-built threadripper and he did the side by side with an intel that is rather new that he owns. In his test, he was able to get double the tracks/plugs out of it. That's impressive, and quite frankly put me on the path to wanting a new computer.

Sounds impressive indeed, but personally it's a bit of overkill for my needs, right now I didn't come to the point where I needed to bounce stuff to audio, I can finish up whole project with complete mixing/"mastering" chain in it and still have enough juice left, think Bitwig is really optimized to utilize multi cores and some of the U He stuff I mostly use, think highest buffer I use is 512... but that's just me...

hitherepeople · Post by **hitherepeople** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:06 pm

I'm at 64

Yeah, I'm a stubborn old coot! But I have an RME so I can get away with that

About the above, if it was double his relatively new 8core/8thread CPU, what would that do compared to mine?

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:48 pm

I assume that a Ryzen 9 5950X system with 16GB RAM costs the same as a Macbook Pro 13 inch with 8GB RAM? In single core performance the difference is apparently not that big but in multi core performance the Ryzen is significantly better.
But... now of course comes the other point: mobility

You can take the Macbook with you on stage or work with it on the road. At the same time, it should be very quiet since the M1 has very low power consumption (the AMD is probably around 100 watts).
With the Macbook you won't be able to edit videos in 4K in real time (e.g. with Davinci Resolve), but with the AMD and a good GPU you can.

Scotty might be right: for a high-end studio machine that will also be used for other things like video editing, the Ryzen might be the better choice. However, it is also expensive in a complete configuration! With a decent GPU, you're quickly at 2000€.

Macbook M1 vs Intel Desktop