Any point in me getting Win11?

[Gadget Fiend]

Outside of just us audio users , gamers are not happy with Windows 11 .. it's the same crap show that was Windows 8.

What's the issue withe Windows 11 and gamers? As far as I know, Windows 11 is mostly a facelift on Windows 10.

Regarding the UI changes, Microsoft finally fixed the practically unusable Window 8/10 Start Menu and its distracting "Live Tiles." Microsoft has also moved away from the stark, angular "flat" look of Windows 8/10 and added a bit of dimensionality to the UI. That's about it for the changes.

[BONES]

Are you kidding me? Windows 8/10 Start is the best thing that ever happened to Windows. It has had a more profound (positive) effect on my workflow than anything else they have ever done to Windows. OTOH, Windows 11's Start is absolute krap. I am no longer able to have everything I want where I can get to it easily and if I want to go looking for something that's not pinned, I have to go to a different screen. I really f**king hate it.

They have changed things just for the sake of changing them, which is just stupid. e.g. Why the f**k would you move the Power button away from the Start button? It's annoying as hell. And why get rid of Action Centre? Those buttons were ultra-handy, now they're gone and nothing has replaced them. And I hate the new style Settings app. It hides everything away, where before you could see it, so now you have to f**k around expanding and collapsing sections. It's just f**king dumb.

Honestly, I have not found one thing in Windows 11 that is an improvement on Windows 10. It's much worse than I thought it would be. Much worse. And after upgrading, I have lost another 13GB of storage, so it's taking up almost one-third of the 128GB SSD on my old Surface Pro (84GB available after the upgrade, 97GB before). And I have nothing else installed on that computer, just Windows, and no files stored on it at all. I can only hope the extra space is because I can still go back to Win10 because if it's just how much bigger Win11 is, that's really f**ked.

[Gadget Fiend]

Are you kidding me? Windows 8/10 Start is the best thing that ever happened to Windows. It has had a more profound (positive) effect on my workflow than anything else they have ever done to Windows. OTOH, Windows 11's Start is absolute krap. I am no longer able to have everything I want where I can get to it easily and if I want to go looking for something that's not pinned, I have to go to a different screen. I really f**king hate it.

They have changed things just for the sake of changing them, which is just stupid. e.g. Why the f**k would you move the Power button away from the Start button? It's annoying as hell. And why get rid of Action Centre? Those buttons were ultra-handy, now they're gone and nothing has replaced them. And I hate the new style Settings app. It hides everything away, where before you could see it, so now you have to f**k around expanding and collapsing sections. It's just f**king dumb.

Honestly, I have not found one thing in Windows 11 that is an improvement on Windows 10. It's much worse than I thought it would be. Much worse. And after upgrading, I have lost another 13GB of storage, so it's taking up almost one-third of the 128GB SSD on my old Surface Pro (84GB available after the upgrade, 97GB before). And I have nothing else installed on that computer, just Windows, and no files stored on it at all. I can only hope the extra space is because I can still go back to Win10 because if it's just how much bigger Win11 is, that's really f**ked.

The Windows 8 "Start Menu" (with no actual "Start" button) was designed for tablets and touch interfaces. What Microsoft apparently didn't realize is that the vast majority of Windows users connect their laptop or desktop to a non-touch monitor. (And even if the monitor was touch-enabled, it would be too hard and tiring to reach with your outstretched arms for prolonged periods of time.) So the design concept for the Windows 8/10 Start Menu was fundamentally flawed.

If you are really unhappy about the changes to the Windows 11 Start Menu, you might want to try Stardock's "Start 11" utility that gives you the option (among others) to replace the Windows 11 Start Menu with either a Windows 7-style or Windows 10-style Start Menu. I think Start 11 is only $6. So it's pretty much a no-brainer.

Regarding the large decrease in available hard drive space after installing Windows 11, I am almost certain that Windows 11 has created a backup image of your Windows 10 OS. Also, did you update from Windows 8 to Windows 10 on your Surface laptop? If so, you also have a backup of your Windows 8 OS from your previous Windows 8 installation. I forget the steps to remove these OS backups. But it is definitely possible.

[BONES]

The Windows 8 Start was designed for a much more efficient workflow, whether you are working on a tablet, a desktop PC or anything in between. Without having to press a button after starting Windows or logging in, you are presented with a menu of application icons (in tiles), you only have to choose one and get to work. Beyond that, by prioritising horizontal scrolling, Win8 made far better use of a landscape-oriented desktop/laptop screen than any other OS in history. It was a stroke of genius for desktop users, not much value to tablet users at all.

As for being "too hard", I use touch on my laptop all the time, mostly when I am sat at my desk using it like a desktop computer. It can be incredibly handy in conjunction with a mouse and even more so if you use a trackpad.

The problem is that people are too hidebound and made no effort to adapt to what were clearly better ways of doing things. But, as I said, I am ye tot find one thing in Win11 that is any better at all than it was in Windows 10. Not one thing.

You are correct about the back-up folder. Microsoft clearly realise a lot of people are going to hate Windows 11 and will want to be rid of it. I only put it on the Surface because I am going to sell it but if the buyer wants Win10, I'll revert it for them before I post it. I'll be sticking with Windows 10 for the foreseeable future.

[Gadget Fiend]

The Windows 8 Start was designed for a much more efficient workflow, whether you are working on a tablet, a desktop PC or anything in between. Without having to press a button after starting Windows or logging in, you are presented with a menu of application icons (in tiles), you only have to choose one and get to work. Beyond that, by prioritising horizontal scrolling, Win8 made far better use of a landscape-oriented desktop/laptop screen than any other OS in history. It was a stroke of genius for desktop users, not much value to tablet users at all.

As for being "too hard", I use touch on my laptop all the time, mostly when I am sat at my desk using it like a desktop computer. It can be incredibly handy in conjunction with a mouse and even more so if you use a trackpad.

The problem is that people are too hidebound and made no effort to adapt to what were clearly better ways of doing things. But, as I said, I am ye tot find one thing in Win11 that is any better at all than it was in Windows 10. Not one thing.

You are correct about the back-up folder. Microsoft clearly realise a lot of people are going to hate Windows 11 and will want to be rid of it. I only put it on the Surface because I am going to sell it but if the buyer wants Win10, I'll revert it for them before I post it. I'll be sticking with Windows 10 for the foreseeable future.

By prioritizing horizontal scrolling, Microsoft violated one of the most basic "Design 101" principles. Namely, that because a huge percentage of Windows customers are using non-touch monitors and a basic up/down scroll wheel mouse, you never want to rely on horizontal scrolling to navigate your application or website. It is so much easier to scroll up and down using a standard mouse scroll wheel than to have to grab a scrollbar to scroll left/right.

While it might be convenient (though I highly doubt it based on my use of touchscreen laptops) to reach out and touch your laptop screen, try doing this with your connected monitor (which is how most people spend their days in corporate offices).

By getting rid of that poorly designed Windows 8/10 Start Menu, Windows 11 has made a huge leap forward in usability. All the other UI refinements make for a better user experience. You are just being "hidebound and making no effort to adapt to clearly better ways of doing things" in Windows 11.

[Aloysius]

There's no such thing as a free lunch, yet here we have a free update to Windows 11.

I don't trust ''Doctor'' Bill Gates. I'll wait and see what happens.

[zerocrossing]

I never understood that Apple obsessed fanboy thing "Macs just work" thing - for the last 10 years at least, I open up a Win machine and it just works too. They both just work, get over it.

I think that comes from the past, when it was true. I worked in a music store where we had a Mac and a PC and the manager hated Apple, so I was relegated to installing new software and doing basic maintenance on the Apple and I used to tease him about how I’d already be using whatever new software or peripheral while he was downloading drivers and on the phone to support. It did seem like there was a big reason to go Apple in those days, and I happily did.

That was in the 90s, though, and things have changed a lot. If you don’t want a laptop (which is basically what they sell, even their iMacs are laptops in a different case), what they make is ridiculous. $6000? I guess if you’re a tech millionaire that’s not much, but the screaming fast PC I just had built was $2500. I’d pay $3000 for an Apple version, but at almost 3x? That’s stupid.

"Apple hardware is superior when it comes to displays, thermal design and noise, materials, and general build quality. You can see it, feel it, and hear it (or not hear it.) A MacBook Pro is just a nicer artifact to own than a plastic Windows laptop."

What are we comparing? A $3000 laptop vs. a $499 laptop? If you actually compare like to like, Apple stuff isn’t really better. The difference is, they don’t really have a low end choice.

Anyway, it’s just funny to see how this becomes a religion to people. Where do all the “it just works” people hide when Apple updates it’s OS and none of your software works anymore?

[starflakeprj]

I never understood that Apple obsessed fanboy thing "Macs just work" thing - for the last 10 years at least, I open up a Win machine and it just works too. They both just work, get over it.

I think that comes from the past, when it was true. I worked in a music store where we had a Mac and a PC and the manager hated Apple, so I was relegated to installing new software and doing basic maintenance on the Apple and I used to tease him about how I’d already be using whatever new software or peripheral while he was downloading drivers and on the phone to support. It did seem like there was a big reason to go Apple in those days, and I happily did.

That was in the 90s, though, and things have changed a lot. If you don’t want a laptop (which is basically what they sell, even their iMacs are laptops in a different case), what they make is ridiculous. $6000? I guess if you’re a tech millionaire that’s not much, but the screaming fast PC I just had built was $2500. I’d pay $3000 for an Apple version, but at almost 3x? That’s stupid.

"Apple hardware is superior when it comes to displays, thermal design and noise, materials, and general build quality. You can see it, feel it, and hear it (or not hear it.) A MacBook Pro is just a nicer artifact to own than a plastic Windows laptop."

What are we comparing? A $3000 laptop vs. a $499 laptop? If you actually compare like to like, Apple stuff isn’t really better. The difference is, they don’t really have a low end choice.

Anyway, it’s just funny to see how this becomes a religion to people. Where do all the “it just works” people hide when Apple updates it’s OS and none of your software works anymore?

In what ways are the Dell XPS 13 better than the MacBook Pro 13 (M1)?
https://youtu.be/QgFd_w2n1es
I really don't like Apple products, I think the MacOS is retarded comparing to Windows 10/11, but when it comes to pure specs and performance on these models, Dell XPS 13 does not stand a chance. Even with the more expensive model.

Edit: I was allowed to choose between these two models at work. I value performance and battery time pretty high, so I chose the MacBook, even though I had been going rogue about my last MacBook Pro 13 with an Intel CPU (2017 model).

[BONES]

By prioritizing horizontal scrolling, Microsoft violated one of the most basic "Design 101" principles. Namely, that because a huge percentage of Windows customers are using non-touch monitors and a basic up/down scroll wheel mouse, you never want to rely on horizontal scrolling to navigate your application or website. It is so much easier to scroll up and down using a standard mouse scroll wheel than to have to grab a scrollbar to scroll left/right.

You don't even know what you're talking about because the scroll wheel doesn't care which direction the scrolling goes, the action is the same. So the first time you use the scroll wheel, you see how it functions and everyone would be used to CTRL-Scrolling horizontally anyway, so horizontal scrolling is hardly anything unfamiliar.

While it might be convenient (though I highly doubt it based on my use of touchscreen laptops) to reach out and touch your laptop screen, try doing this with your connected monitor (which is how most people spend their days in corporate offices).

No difference for me here, both my monitors at work are within easy touching distance. In fact, I regularly reach out to open Action Centre before I remember it won't work here. So a care-free swipe anywhere along the right edge of the screen becomes a careful mouse-click on a small button instead.

By getting rid of that poorly designed Windows 8/10 Start Menu, Windows 11 has made a huge leap forward in usability.

Bullshit. That is provably wrong. For a start, if I want to look for an item that's not pinned, I have to click on the "more" button, which I don't have to do in Win10. Beyond that, once I reach the limit on how many icons I can pin, I have to change pages to get to any others. OTOH, I have more than 70 pinned applications in my Windows 10 Start, all neatly categorised, with medium and small tiles to make it easier to find the most important things quickly, and Start is still only around the same size as the one in Win11, only it's shaped in a way that works better for me - tall and narrow, not a fixed size that is hugely inefficient, because it is clearly designed for touch, not mouse operation. To have the same 70-odd things pinned in Windows 11 would mean a minimum of four screens, with the requirement to navigate through them to the one I need. So instead of just click START, click app tile, it's now click START, click to go to page 1, click again to go to page 2, click again to go to page3, click again to go to page 4, then click app icon. There is no way to categorise things, other than to hide them away on a different screen, thereby defeating the purpose of being organised in the first place. There is no way to make one thing stand out over another so finding what you want quickly is less immediate.

All the other UI refinements make for a better user experience.

No, they don't and if they did, you could list a few. e.g. What's a better way of adding a new Bluetooth device than right-clicking on the Bluetooth icon in Action Centre was? What's a better way of switching to a different Explorer window than having a separate Taskbar button for each one? Now I have to click the Explorer button, squint at the tiny little thumbnails to work out which one I need, or hover over each one so it is exposed, and then click again to give it focus. It's an absolute shit show.

[Gadget Fiend]

You don't even know what you're talking about because the scroll wheel doesn't care which direction the scrolling goes, the action is the same. So the first time you use the scroll wheel, you see how it functions and everyone would be used to CTRL-Scrolling horizontally anyway, so horizontal scrolling is hardly anything unfamiliar.

You're horribly confused. Ask 100 average Windows users whether they know that by holding down the CTRL key they can change their mouse scroll wheel so that it scrolls horizontally. Probably 1 person would know. Plus, it's totally counter-intuitive to scroll your mouse wheel backwards and forwards when the direction of movement onscreen is left to right. Or is it right to left? See, no one knows.

No difference for me here, both my monitors at work are within easy touching distance. In fact, I regularly reach out to open Action Centre before I remember it won't work here. So a care-free swipe anywhere along the right edge of the screen becomes a careful mouse-click on a small button instead.

You're so full of shit. You are going to say with a straight face that reaching out to touch your large touch screen monitor (that I doubt you even own) won't be fatiguing after about ten minutes. That's why Apple never put useless, fingerprint magnet, battery-sucking touch screens on its laptops.

Bullshit. That is provably wrong. For a start, if I want to look for an item that's not pinned, I have to click on the "more" button, which I don't have to do in Win10. Beyond that, once I reach the limit on how many icons I can pin, I have to change pages to get to any others. OTOH, I have more than 70 pinned applications in my Windows 10 Start, all neatly categorised, with medium and small tiles to make it easier to find the most important things quickly, and Start is still only around the same size as the one in Win11, only it's shaped in a way that works better for me - tall and narrow, not a fixed size that is hugely inefficient, because it is clearly designed for touch, not mouse operation. To have the same 70-odd things pinned in Windows 11 would mean a minimum of four screens, with the requirement to navigate through them to the one I need. So instead of just click START, click app tile, it's now click START, click to go to page 1, click again to go to page 2, click again to go to page3, click again to go to page 4, then click app icon. There is no way to categorise things, other than to hide them away on a different screen, thereby defeating the purpose of being organised in the first place. There is no way to make one thing stand out over another so finding what you want quickly is less immediate.

You do realize that the average Windows user has maybe 5 to 10 application items pinned to their taskbar? The fact that you have 70 tiles on your Windows 8/10 Start Screen is a sign that you can't figure out what is important to you and what can be kept out of sight.

No, they don't and if they did, you could list a few. e.g. What's a better way of adding a new Bluetooth device than right-clicking on the Bluetooth icon in Action Centre was? What's a better way of switching to a different Explorer window than having a separate Taskbar button for each one? Now I have to click the Explorer button, squint at the tiny little thumbnails to work out which one I need, or hover over each one so it is exposed, and then click again to give it focus. It's an absolute shit show.

By "Action Center" I assume you mean that bastardization of app notifications and system settings on the far right of the taskbar? God, what a horrible mess. I can only hope that Microsoft cleaned up this currently craptastic use of space. Also, the "System Tray" is totally out of control for most people. There are obscure icons cluttering up the right side of the taskbar with a popup of even more inscrutable icons. That's great for usability. Hopefully Microsoft did something about that mess as well.

[AnX]

I'll stick with Win 7

[Gadget Fiend]

I'll stick with Win 7

Aero Glass. I thought it was just a bad nightmare. But I keep waking up in a cold sweat with visions of that blurry, grotesque UI.

[AnX]

No idea, I think I went back to xp scheme...

[kingozrecords]

no point at all. There's various workarounds to ensure that your drive is not encrypted. This means that everything, even graphics is affected, especially given the fact that every bit of data needs to be decoded on the fly and in turn that the device built onto the motherboard that allows this to occur is infact a serial device and not a multithreaded one.

Though processors are always getting faster, obviously it's a feat to muster. Do you need to protect your computer from spies? Is keeping you from easily putting your hard drive into a new computer something that you'd like to assist with? Do you have worries that perhaps you're your own worst enemy and that you're living in some kind of nightmarish spy world surrounded by those targetting you with viruses & hackers? Do you need a vpn to logon to amazon because you're using your nieghbours free wifi without saying and the vpn may or may not be software and pirated somehow?

Windows 11 is all that if you are. It's all that.

[BONES]

Plus, it's totally counter-intuitive to scroll your mouse wheel backwards and forwards when the direction of movement onscreen is left to right. Or is it right to left? See, no one knows.

This just shows the stupidity of your position - "backwards and forwards" is not up/down, either, so it' snot like one makes any more or less sense than the other. OTOH, it definitely makes less sense to make everything scroll vertically on a landscape oriented screen. But the important thing is that when you use the scroll wheel, the page you are looking at scrolls.

You're so full of shit. You are going to say with a straight face that reaching out to touch your large touch screen monitor (that I doubt you even own) won't be fatiguing after about ten minutes.

If that was the only means of interacting with the computer then, yes, it would get very tiring, very quickly. OTOH, when I am busy doing something non my left monitor with the mouse and I need to open Action Centre quickly, then a quick swipe on the right edge of the right monitor and a push of a button on screen is much less disruptive than moving the mouse across two 27" screens, pressing a couple of buttons and then moving my mouse back to what I was doing.

It's about options and Windows 11 has taken away more options than any version of Windows ever, making it more and more like macOS, which is a terrible, terrible thing.

That's why Apple never put useless, fingerprint magnet, battery-sucking touch screens on its laptops.

That's not the reason, the reason is that if they did, it might impact iPad sales and they'd much prefer you buy two computing devices from them than just one.

You do realize that the average Windows user has maybe 5 to 10 application items pinned to their taskbar?

As do I.

The fact that you have 70 tiles on your Windows 8/10 Start Screen is a sign that you can't figure out what is important to you and what can be kept out of sight.

Except that everything on Start is "out of sight" until I need to access it. That's the whole f**king point of it.

By "Action Center" I assume you mean that bastardization of app notifications and system settings on the far right of the taskbar? God, what a horrible mess.

Yours may be a horrible mess but mine is perfectly customised for my needs - no notifications of anything, ever, and just the 6 Quick Action buttons I find useful, in an order that makes sense to me.

I can only hope that Microsoft cleaned up this currently craptastic use of space.

Except, again, it doesn't take up any space until you need it. Yes, it would be better if you could separate the Quick Actions from the notifications area but the way it is in W10 is definitely preferable to not having it at all.

Also, the "System Tray" is totally out of control for most people.

Again, only if they choose to allow it to be. It's also why I prefer the Quick Action buttons to the tiny little icons in the Tray so, really, you are kind of making my point about Action Centre for me.