KVR Audio

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Wed May 27, 2020 1:57 pm

It all about use cases... What are you trying to accomplish with your device and what your your options.

I have a powerful desktop and use both Mac and Windows, but almost exclusively for anything video for audio I work on a Mac by choice.

I don't perform live and when I did it was mostly with acoustic instruments.

I've gone through the same comparison since 2015 between the iPad Pro and the Surface Pro. Each time I've gone with the iPad Pro for two reasons... 1) most desktop apps are still not optimized for touch and 2) if I'm going to use desktop apps not optimized for touch, I'll just use my desktop.

What I want from a touch capable device is speed and ease of use. For anything more, I'm going to use my desktop.

If I didn't have a desktop and I if had to only choose one device to do everything on, I'd choose a Surface Pro.

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Wed May 27, 2020 2:09 pm

elxsound wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 1:57 pm It all about use cases... What are you trying to accomplish with your device and what your your options.

I think some people forget that (or deliberately ignore that...).

iPads are not the same thing as a Surface Pro, not by a long shot, and there is very little overlap in available apps. If I had the choice between an iPad and a Surface Pro, I would go with the iPad, as the Surface Pro wouldn't really give me anything I can't get from a laptop. The iPad provides considerably more, and also integrates really well with my MacBook.

I play a lot of acoustic instruments, so I'm not looking at the iPad to emulate anything like that, and I'm a pretty decent pianist, so I don't need controllers to replace a keyboard. The iPad and the plethora of apps available give me something entirely different.

That's how it is for most people I guess, and it behooves no one to criticize the iPad for not being a Surface Pro, or a Windows laptop, or whatever else they are going to compare it with - it fits into a entirely different niche from all those things that (for whatever reason) it is being compared with.

Noumena · Post by **Noumena** » Wed May 27, 2020 7:38 pm

The question as to why there isn't a full featured DAW on iOS is quite good. My theory is that DAWs are very expensive to make, are usually developed cross-platform using a x-platform framework that relies on normal desktop/laptop UI pragmas, and that touch, having a totally different UI paradigm would require a lot of extra work. All that added to the economics of iOS where $50 is a very expensive software purchase means that you'd be spending a lot more to make a lot less as a developer of a DAW for iOS. The only company with an incentive to write one is Apple, but it would seem that they are happy to give garage band away to upsell users to a desktop running Logic Pro atm. Mostly likely they haven't ported Logic to iOS because it is so mind-glowingly complex a program with enormous amounts of legacy code... the remote app for iOS is very on point, though.

But one could *also* ask why there isn't a full featured DAW for Eurorack, right? Desktop, table/touch, eurorack... All different platforms, different economic models, different patterns of engagement... these all make for different implementations and different possibilities (as well as restrictions) for the musicians. A DAW just doesn't work quite right on iOS right now for a few reasons... but maybe the more interesting question is what *does* work?

I love that software is inexpensive on iOS -- I feel like this is because the copy protection model is solid. Companies are making more money by selling a plugin to a smaller user cohort on iOS for 20% of what they charge for desktop. I love that it is modular. Since no product seems to be able to succeed with a price point over 10-20$ the market has responded by building up a nice modular environment. I love how it feels to make music with the computer reduced to just a piece of glass, too. The screen should be able to be moved away from the center of music making and the tablet/touch implementation allows it.

TheMaestro · Post by **TheMaestro** » Wed May 27, 2020 8:33 pm

Again this is just BONEhead's anecdotes and his own failure to see other peoples needs and workflow.
It doesn't work for him, or he has some other workaround/solution, and therefore it's stupid if anyone else uses anything he doesn't use. Arguing again and again over his own superior (not really) choices is moot, and he should be kicked the hell out of here for good as he's been warned a few times now.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 pm

Noumena wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 3:54 amSurely the Surface cost as much as an iPad and you find yourself using it for music, which is basically what you are (for reasons that I believe are a mystery to everyone here) arguing against.

My Surface Pro 2 cost me $200, including the TypeCover. It's old, from 2014. I got it as an ex-corporate-lease. It's only a Core i5 but it does the job well enough for live work if I use my OverHub to give me all the I/O I need.

My only guess is that you cannot abide the cognitive dissonance of perhaps missing out on something by not yourself pursuing music making on iOS

Yes, because the thought that someone might actually make a rational assessment and come to a different conclusion to you is clearly too much for you to even consider. Why does that create such a problem for you and so many others? I can only assume it is because, deep down, you know your assessment was anything but rational and the decision(s) that flowed from it were perhaps not the best you could have made.

You see, a rational response to my posts would run along the lines of "have you tried it? It's really quite good, you should give it a go", followed by a clear explanation of the advantages you see in it. That kind of argument can be persuasive to a rational being. The rubbish you spewed into the aether, along with the thread title, tends to have the opposite effect, it reinforces my belief that you guys are basically clueless idiots. Surely you can see that?

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Thu May 28, 2020 12:45 am

Can I ask a general mod question?

Why is BONES allowed to constantly flout forum rule #2 when no one else is, especially considering that the majority of his posts add no value to the forum?

MadDogE134 · Post by **MadDogE134** » Thu May 28, 2020 1:28 am

i know i was a bit snide and i ain't trying to pile on him... some of his posts have merit from time to time and sometimes he does actually try to help folk albeit somewhat harshly lol. in the end everyone is entitled to an opinion but he needs to stop trying to pick fights for the sake of fighting. it is uncalled for, unneeded and most certainly unwanted. he's probably just a big pussy cat lol chill out BONES... try to get along mate and learn to use that bloody edit button sometime.

Noumena · Post by **Noumena** » Thu May 28, 2020 2:26 am

Again, Bones. Consider taking a break. Or just re-reading your own post and pausing for just a moment to think about what you just wrote and how it applies to yourself and the posts you’ve made in just this one thread.

I wonder if you’ve ever considered the fact that many, many people have muted you when you rankle at being called out for your poor behavior: you’ve already alienated a lot of folks to the point that they took the time to block you. I’d imagine that it doesn’t feel great. No time like the present to make a change, man.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu May 28, 2020 3:01 am

BONES wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 pmYou see, a rational response to my posts would run along the lines of "have you tried it? It's really quite good, you should give it a go", followed by a clear explanation of the advantages you see in it. That kind of argument can be persuasive to a rational being.

For a few years I've had an iPad Pro cause it is excellent for drawing with the Apple pencil and a couple drawing apps. It also has the same apps (Affinity Photo and Designer with Publisher coming) that I use on the Mac with feature parity and automatically interchangeable. It's a powerful and easy combination.

I never found the music side of iOS all that interesting. Couple times I tried it but ran into issues and dropped it.

Then I recently tried a newly updated granular app called Borderlands and it is hands down the most fun and creative granular synth I have used. I don't want to be without it. At the same time a modular groovebox called Drambo was also released. Solid sound quality, very flexible and a sequencer on par with Elektron boxes but easier to use. It's fun and useful and with a bit of polish after the 1.0 release will be excellent.

Once I had those 2, I bought the FabFilter iOS plugins, Eventide and an excellent Audio routing app called AUM. Then I thought... hmm... I'm actually close to having a functional music setup on iOS. That would be pretty cool as a portable studio so then I started looking for a real DAW. That's where I hit the wall... IMO, there isn't one I am satisfied with and feature wise I am pretty easy to please. The only significant DAW offering I have not tried is Cubasis and that is because recent reviews are full of bug and crash complaints (since v3 it appears). Garageband is not too bad, but just misses a few essential things.

So I have set the idea aside until there is a DAW I am happy with... which would mean stable, has a solid if somewhat basic featureset and really makes good use of the multi-touch screen which requires a different mindset/design than a regular mouse-driven desktop/laptop application.

In the meantime, I'm using the iPad Pro like a hardware synth... for Borderlands and Drambo.

MadDogE134 · Post by **MadDogE134** » Thu May 28, 2020 3:48 am

yeah it ain't perfect by no means but it has gotten a LOT better the last few years and will only get better in the future i suspect. i bought cubasis... the first one... then they gave us all v2 but i refrain from buying v3

i use cubasis v2 as a catch all recorder on the end of AUM then just stem out for my other real DAWs i think it is pretty cool for a small mobile tool when on the go and great for creating parts. all the other added perks like second screen, pencil and remote control not to mention midi controller... are all icing on the cake. i have the iPad Air v3 i think it is... the new one... and i really love it. still limited but certainly has it's uses

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Thu May 28, 2020 4:56 am

Forgotten wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 12:45 am Can I ask a general mod question?

Why is BONES allowed to constantly flout forum rule #2 when no one else is, especially considering that the majority of his posts add no value to the forum?

+1 on the question. Does he own the site?

BONES wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 pm it reinforces my belief that you guys are basically clueless idiots.

Search BONES posts for keywords idiot and idiots

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=637

TheMaestro · Post by **TheMaestro** » Thu May 28, 2020 7:08 am

BONES wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 pm Yes, because the thought that someone might actually make a rational assessment and come to a different conclusion to you...

Projection much? Or just delusion?

Noumena · Post by **Noumena** » Thu May 28, 2020 6:21 pm

Drambo is the revolution. Not only is it an amazing elektron synth (p-locks!!!) but it is one of the best modular environments going. It is also one of the best sounding and well-implemented MPE synths on the market.

Question: is there a way to get Dante working with an iPad somehow? Feels like that would be a great solution: the iPad could have 8ins and 8outs into Dante and be accessible easily on a desktop DAW.

Noumena · Post by **Noumena** » Thu May 28, 2020 6:24 pm

like -- one of these: https://www.atlasied.com/ipusbd-8

ramseysounds · Post by **ramseysounds** » Fri May 29, 2020 10:30 am

Forgotten wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 12:45 amWhy is BONES allowed to constantly flout forum rule #2 when no one else is, especially considering that the majority of his posts add no value to the forum?

Im not a Bones fan, but if you think no-one else is flouting rule 2, then you are deluded. I have been subject to plenty of abuse on here. It's a general open forum. Just because someone elses opinion is different to yours, doesn't make them wrong

ipad is where the real is.