Schillinger's Interference generator controls?

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como baila
KVRian
621 posts since 15 Oct, 2003 from 'SoCal' California

Post Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:10 pm

Has anyone figured out how the sliders at the top in the 3x2 matrix are supposed to work/ interact with one another? (Duration 1 and Phrase 1; Duration 2 and Phrase 2; Duration 3 and Phrase 3)

I'm getting very different results of phrase note length when trying to interact with them ... but nothing I can push towards a predictably useable result.

I checked the new manual, but the explanation of controls omits mentioning them.
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.

themixtape
KVRist
207 posts since 13 May, 2004

Post Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:59 pm

Honestly I've no clue, I just play with the sliders until something sounds cool. Keeps it fun that way, too. It's an algorithm that's quite complex, but I don't have the patience to understand exactly how to use the ratios.

Anyone?

como baila
KVRian
621 posts since 15 Oct, 2003 from 'SoCal' California

Post Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:17 pm

Apparently a very influential guy in Jazz/ Big Band. Gershwin and Glen Miller studied under him. Another student, Berk, was the founder of Berklee School of Music.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 8011,d.aWM

Yes ... just keep pushing those sliders around.

Apparently, (I'd found an article before online that I no longer can locate) RC uses the Schillenger Interference Rhythm Theory in those algorithms. I'm still digging around, but not finding much to help me with a 'map of the forest' for using these controls. Maybe we should kick the question to the KVR Music Theory Forum. There are some amazing brains over there ... except it seems like the resident geniuses most enjoy arguing with one another and it's hard to get any answers to questions beyond: "It depends."
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.

musicdevelopments
KVRAF
2825 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:47 am

It is really interesting, especially on longer phrases or shorter intervals.

First you choose an interval: 1 beat(quarter note), half beat (eighth note), or 1/4 beat (16th note). Choose 1/4 beat, because with 1 beat you won't always see the effects of the sliders if the phrase is short.

There are 3 lines each with its own rhythm. In each line events are placed every Nth interval, and an offset (phase) can be set too. For example if the duration is 3, events will be added at:

Code: Select all

1 . . 4 . . 7 . . 10 . . 13 . .etc
If the duration is 1, an event will be placed at each interval - not very interesting. If it is 0, that line will be ignored (only the 3rd one can be ignored so you work with 2 lines).

You should set different durations for the 3 (or 2) lines to get an interesting patten (interference).

As the last step events are counted at each interval and notes are created.
You can specify which accent to use when there are 1, 2 or 3 events at a position.

An example: duration 3 and duration 4:

Code: Select all

1 . . 4 . . 7 . . 10 . . 13 . . 16  .  . 19 . . etc
1 . . . 5 . . . 9  . . . 13 . .  . 17  .  . 20 . . etc
Number of events:

Code: Select all

2 . . 1 1 . 1 . 1  1 . . 2  . .  1  1  .  1  1 
You can assign strong accent when there are 2 events, and medium accent when there is only 1 event.
By using 3 lines even more complex rhythm can be created.
Remember, you should use a different duration for each line.

Maybe I could not explain it well, but it is worth to experiment with it.
I am a fan of Schillinger's work, he was ahead of his time.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions

J.F.K.
KVRist
70 posts since 24 Nov, 2011

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:02 am

But what exactly does the setting "No Event" at the input fields "1/2/3 Pulses" mean? Isn't it supposed to produce rests in the generated pattern? I had expected that a setting "No Event" at the input field "2 Pulses" means, that no event (i.e. a rest) is produced at positions, where the 3 rhythmic lines produce two pulses simultaneously. But obviously I'm wrong, since I don't find any setting which produces a pattern with rests.

como baila
KVRian
621 posts since 15 Oct, 2003 from 'SoCal' California

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:20 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:It is really interesting, especially on longer phrases or shorter intervals.

<snip>

Maybe I could not explain it well, but it is worth to experiment with it.
I am a fan of Schillinger's work, he was ahead of his time.

Thanks,
Attila
No! It's very clear now.

The only thing you didn't mention was phase. I have to believe that must just be an offset for where the first note starts for each of the different pulses.

Correct?
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.

musicdevelopments
KVRAF
2825 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:29 pm

But what exactly does the setting "No Event" at the input fields "1/2/3 Pulses" mean? Isn't it supposed to produce rests in the generated pattern? I had expected that a setting "No Event" at the input field "2 Pulses" means, that no event (i.e. a rest) is produced at positions, where the 3 rhythmic lines produce two pulses simultaneously.
That is right, you can choose not to insert a MIDI note when there are 1/2/3 events at positions. (The wording is confusing a bit, in the menu "No Event" refers to MIDI events.)
Some phrase generators offer note length settings and with the right setting you will have rests. The default is sustaining notes, so maybe that is why you don't see rests. Setting the note length will be more sophisticated in the near future, and all phrase generators should have this setting.
The only thing you didn't mention was phase. I have to believe that must just be an offset for where the first note starts for each of the different pulses.

Correct?
Yes, exactly the phrase is just an offset from the start.
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions

como baila
KVRian
621 posts since 15 Oct, 2003 from 'SoCal' California

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:58 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:
But what exactly does the setting "No Event" at the input fields "1/2/3 Pulses" mean? Isn't it supposed to produce rests in the generated pattern? I had expected that a setting "No Event" at the input field "2 Pulses" means, that no event (i.e. a rest) is produced at positions, where the 3 rhythmic lines produce two pulses simultaneously.
That is right, you can choose not to insert a MIDI note when there are 1/2/3 events at positions. (The wording is confusing a bit, in the menu "No Event" refers to MIDI events.)
Some phrase generators offer note length settings and with the right setting you will have rests. The default is sustaining notes, so maybe that is why you don't see rests. Setting the note length will be more sophisticated in the near future, and all phrase generators should have this setting.
The only thing you didn't mention was phase. I have to believe that must just be an offset for where the first note starts for each of the different pulses.

Correct?
Yes, exactly the phrase is just an offset from the start.
Attila ...

Would it be that difficult to implement a 'Rests' variation in which you could use two sliders: one to determine on which beat the rest was to occur and one to determine how long it was to be?

Ideally this would be a 'master track' variation inspector to set the rest behavior at one go for the entire composition. For additional rests, you could just add another 'Rests' widgit to the variation inspector.
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.

musicdevelopments
KVRAF
2825 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:14 pm

It would be easy to implement it. I think I 'll do it today ;)
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions

como baila
KVRian
621 posts since 15 Oct, 2003 from 'SoCal' California

Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:43 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:It would be easy to implement it. I think I 'll do it today ;)
Darn ... I'm going to have to think of something difficult so it will at least take you a day and a half ... or maybe two! :love:
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!

Win7 x64 Dual Dualcore Xeon 3.0 Ghz 16 GB Ram. Cubase 6, RapidComposer, BIAB, Abelton 6, Acid Pro 6,Roland XV5080 & Super JD, E-Mu CS PX7, Korg Radias R and MI-EX R, ASR-X Turbo, UAD 2 Quads, stuff.

dammusic
KVRer
6 posts since 8 Dec, 2017

Re: Schillinger's Interference generator controls?

Post Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:23 am

Is there anybody here that knows how to do House piano patterns in rapid composer it seems great for doing complicated patterns but is there a simple way to do 90s House pianos patterns. Tracks like Sweet Harmony black Box Right on Time. Would be great if anybody could pass on some videos or information.

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