v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

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sj1
KVRist
95 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Post Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:41 pm

Cool. Thanks Attila!

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sj1
KVRist
95 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:06 am

Hi,

I may have found a bug, or else I may just need to have this situation explained to me.

What I'm observing is that when I have populated a track with the Bass Generator from scratch I can subsequently select all the phrases (click on one of them, then Ctrl-A), right-click on the set, and then 'Regenerate All Selected Generators' (using the button under the wand in the Phrase Inspector).

However, if I have arrived at a track full of Bass Generators by copying a track of non-Generators and then doing (from the Phrase Inspector): Convert to Phrase Generator (Bass Generator), I find that subsequent attempts to 'Regenerate All Selected Generators' have no effect.

IOW, the history of how the Bass Generators were created seems to be affecting whether or not they can actually be regenerated!

Should not a track full of Bass Generators always be regenerable, regardless of their history?

I'm happy to have my understanding enhanced if what I'm observing is by design!

Here is a picture. The track 'Acoustic Bass No Regen' is the one that had it's origin from track 'Acoustic Bass 1'. As per it's title, it will not regenerate!

RC No Regen 01.jpg

The tracks below it, created "from scratch" regenerate just fine.

Attached is the file shown.
SJ_Funk_Gen_01b.zip
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BluGenes
KVRian
581 posts since 15 May, 2017

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:25 am

It is because when you changed TO a generator, it used manual rhythm. Some rhythms will not generate, some will. experiment with that to see..

But, in this case of being a bass generator, it should use the bass rhythm, but, doesn't in the conversion.

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sj1
KVRist
95 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:36 pm

Thank you BluGenes! I confirm your comment.

The converted phrases were indeed created as Rhythm: Manual Editing .

RC Converted to Manual Editing 01.jpg

Of the list of possible rhythms:

RC Rhythms List 01.jpg

indeed I observe that some of them will regenerate, and some will not (and 'Manual Editing' will not).

I may have never figured this out on my own! Comments/suggestions to follow,
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sj1
KVRist
95 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:37 pm

Comments/suggestions -

Message/Status Line

I'm starting to think that RC needs a status/message line. As much as goes on (and sometimes doesn't go on!) in this program, it is important that there is a way to pass relevant information to the user in various contexts and after various actions.

In this case, we have a silent failure to regenerate when the perfectly normal-looking (i.e. not grayed-out) 'Regenerate' button is pressed. This presents as a "bug" even though it is really a case of "Regeneration not available for current Rhythm". A status/message line could be used to inform the user of this. This would be much better than just not acting and leaving the user in the dark!

I think it likely there are *many* corners in this program where such extra info would be very helpful to the users, or even absolutely critical.

As an example of a status/message line I'm thinking of a strip along the bottom, same size and shape as the magnifying glass strip (and just above it), in which text messages from the program can be displayed. (IOW, specifically *not* a pop-up dialog message window.) A (defeatable) small "ding!" sound when a new message is generated could also be part of it. The user could also be allowed to click on a message to dismiss it (but this should not be modal, just a visual cleanup).

Such a facility would give the developer a permanent, reusable, rapid response mechanism for any situation where the experience of users identifies a production stumbling point resulting from lack of information. Adding the small logic for a new message (in the next release, beta, or hot-fix) would require minimal effort by the dev while generating large savings from the avoidance of questions, research, forum postings, etc. for all future users who might at any point be affected by each case.

Finally, in the future, a collected appendix of all the program's messages (which can be simply auto-generated by textual analysis of the source code) could actually function as a great kind of study guide to help people learn about things they need to become aware of on the path of mastering the program.

---

In lists, for the User's edification, identify (mark) Rhythms (or other elements) that will or won't regenerate. For example, put a small "(r)" in the pop-up list after the names of Rhythms that will regenerate, and/or a small "(nr)" for ones that won't.

---

The possibility also exists to make the 'Regenerate' button (or any other) smarter in terms of greying it out when it won't work. Ideally, a greyed-out button would offer a message when clicked as to *why* it is currently greyed-out.

---

When the user chooses to 'Convert to Generator', doesn't that kind of imply the user will want to do regeneration at some point? Offhand, I would think so, and that the default result of 'Convert to Generator' should be a configuration that is ready for regeneration. But, I am a new user, and I recognize that things may be the way they are for reasons I've yet to encounter!

Thanks for considering these comments, and in the meantime, I will try to remember to check on that phrase rhythm setting whenever I'm not getting a regeneration.

Cheers!

xhevahir
KVRer
7 posts since 16 Aug, 2019

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:03 pm

Yeah, maybe something like the Emacs minibuffer.

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3573 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:12 am

sj1 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:36 pm
indeed I observe that some of them will regenerate, and some will not (and 'Manual Editing' will not).

I may have never figured this out on my own! Comments/suggestions to follow,
Yes, exactly. There are rhythm generators without any randomness (like Manual Editing, Simple Intervals, Schillingers' Interference, Polyrhythm, Euclidean Rhythm and others), and there are phrase generators with and without randomness. Of course if you regenerate such a phrase, it won't change.

You are right that this should be displayed to the user.
I'm starting to think that RC needs a status/message line.
I am glad you mention this, because I was thinking exactly about a status/help line at the bottom! Primarily I wanted to display help (mouse buttons and modifiers) for the element under the mouse, but it could be useful for messages to the user. I want to make the user interface friendlier, so all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

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sj1
KVRist
95 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:39 am

musicdevelopments wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:12 am
There are rhythm generators without any randomness (like Manual Editing, Simple Intervals, Schillingers' Interference, Polyrhythm, Euclidean Rhythm and others), and there are phrase generators with and without randomness. Of course if you regenerate such a phrase, it won't change.
Thanks much for your comments Attilla!

What you say about randomness and regeneration raises a question for me.

Looking at Schillingers' Interference as an example,

RC Schillinger Interference 01.jpg

the UI let's the user manually make many changes to get completely different results. In the sense that each of the (huge number of combinations of) discreet UI settings specifies an exact, unchanging result then we might say there are no "random" elements involved.

However, it would certainly be possible to have the 'Regenerate!' button, when pushed, to randomly set the UI elements to new and different values within their allowable ranges and thus to obtain new and different results.

Every UI element offered has a range of allowed values. Is it not reasonable to consider 'Regeneration' to be a process that randomizes across these allowed values?

Wouldn't this same logic apply in every (or almost every) case?

Perhaps there is a distinction to be made between 'Regenerate' and 'Randomize' (what I describe above)? If so, this could lead to the button being relabeled alternately, or to having two different buttons.

(I'm agnostic at this point about whether it would be better to bury such a distinction in the interest of simplicity or highlight it in the interest of specificity!)
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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3573 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:50 am

Yes, you make a good point, to differentiate between regenerating something with different random numbers (random seed) and setting the various options randomly, like the "Randomize" button in Markov Melody generator, or Piano Chord Pattern generator.
Thanks!
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

crossovercable
KVRist
415 posts since 26 May, 2014

THANKS

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:02 am

THANKS, THANKS, THANKS, THANKS...
I just come here to say thanks Attila !
I have spent so much time in other forums trying to get things fixed and features implemented, there is also a lot of negativity from other long time users that are stuck in the past and scared of change.
I was shocked and fell off the floor when I came here when things I asked for for 10 years elsewhere were implemented virtually over night here. Other users here are encouraging of new ideas and making things better !
There is no stress or frustration here it all works how it should, it's a pleasure.

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3573 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:59 am

Thank you for the kind words, crossovercable! :)
I always say that RapidComposer is so good because of the support and suggestions I get from users. Without you this software would be unusable...
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

dbender
KVRist
308 posts since 26 Feb, 2007

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:25 am

And without you the software wouldn’t be so wonderful, best dev ever :)

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3573 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:34 am

Thanks, David! :oops:
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

magicmusic
KVRian
1127 posts since 11 Nov, 2013

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:06 am

Hi Attila

about the controller and pitchbend support feature in phrase. Is there hope that it come soon or is it still much work to add ?
For Bug report Purpose that developer see which system i use; win 10 64 1809 intel i5 8600K (6*3.6 GHZ) 16 GB Ram

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3573 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: v3 Beta Feedback And Discussion (Bugs, Features, Suggestions)

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:35 pm

Hi magicmusic,
I am working on RC, adding a big new feature. Controller support for notes and phrases will come afterwards.
Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

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