Rootless 9th in V3.4

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tigerintheboat
KVRist
81 posts since 21 Nov, 2016

Post Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Rootless 9th voicing seems to work if you specify a 9th in the chord. So, for example, if I say "I maj 9", in the Key of F, I do get E G A and C in the chord.

However, if I ask for "I maj 7" and then specify rootless voicing, I get E F A C. Not only is the G (9) not there, but the F, the root, is there! And this is particulaly dissonant when voiced with the E next to the F.

I assumed/hoped that you would add the 9 to whatever voicing I chose if I chose rootless voicing. For example, if I asked for"I maj 7", and chose rootless voicing, I thought you would add the 9th to the chord and voice it correctly (A C E G in the key of F).

From the fake book/jazz point of view, the fake book would not say "I maj 9". It would say "I maj 7", and the player would choose to play the right hand rootless 9th voicing.

On some other chords, say IIm7, you get a voicing with only three notes and no root. For example, Gm7, rootless 9 voicing gives you Bb D F. It is rootless, but pretty confusing, I think.

I am less confused and now know what to expect, I think, but I think others might be confused, to have the root included in the rootless 9th!

Tiger
Last edited by tigerintheboat on Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lulukom
KVRian
737 posts since 30 Nov, 2013

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:05 pm

+1

nexussynth
KVRian
530 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:00 pm

+1
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

musicdevelopments
KVRAF
2848 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:10 pm

The way it works: you can define the voicing for existing chord notes, at the moment there is no way to add chord notes. It will be possible in the future.
You can use "Rootless 9th" with 9th chords as the name suggests. You can freely change how it behaves when used with a 7th but that won't be a rootless 9th because there is no way to add tensions at the moment.

This is an interesting area, if there is demand I can add this functionality in the near future.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions

nexussynth
KVRian
530 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:04 pm

+1
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

forrestlong
KVRist
72 posts since 6 May, 2014

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:18 pm

+1

User avatar
yellukhan
KVRian
1311 posts since 10 Mar, 2004

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:27 am

+1 :D
i guess ability to add chord notes independently from master track chords would useful!

musicdevelopments
KVRAF
2848 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:23 am

I see. Thanks for the feedback. So this will be the first thing to be implemented in the next beta version.

Thank you for your votes! ;)
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions

User avatar
yellukhan
KVRian
1311 posts since 10 Mar, 2004

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:59 am

musicdevelopments wrote:I see. Thanks for the feedback. So this will be the first thing to be implemented in the next beta version.

Thank you for your votes! ;)
Attila
isn't this mean (for example) we can add all scale notes for a specific track as chord notes? :o
if so, means also my Scale Arp Gen. suggestion will implemented automatically .. yay! :love:

musicdevelopments
KVRAF
2848 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:18 am

Well, almost.

For universal voicing editing:
This means when you edit a "Triad" there will be buttons like "Add 7th", "Add 9th", "Add 11th", "Add 13th" that you can switch on/off.
When you enable for example "Add 9th", all 9th notes are highlighted on the keyboard (with a different color, e.g. red) that you can turn on/off to define the voicing.
The 9th note will be computed based on the scale used when the universal voicing is applied to a concrete chord.

For editing a concrete chord, there will be similar buttons "Add 7th", "Add 9th", etc, but the actual 9th note will be highlighted on the keyboard. Whether to allow b9 or #9, I haven't decided, I definitely don't want to make it very complicated.

But this sounds like a powerful feature...
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Music Prototyping And Automated Composition Solutions

lulukom
KVRian
737 posts since 30 Nov, 2013

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 am

:tu:

nexussynth
KVRian
530 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:40 pm

:tu:
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

padillac
KVRian
569 posts since 27 Nov, 2011

Re: Rootless 9th in V3.4

Post Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:55 am

tigerintheboat wrote:However, if I ask for "I maj 7" and then specify rootless voicing, I get E F A C. Not only is the G (9) not there, but the F, the root, is there! And this is particulaly dissonant when voiced with the E next to the F.
I would expect RC to not include the F (because it's rootless), but I also would not expect it to automatically add the 9th to it. Your point about what jazz pianists I think is a matter of stylistic interpretation. I see the exact opposite scenario happening – I add a rootless 7th chord, and am confused why it adds a 9th! So then I'd have to come here and ask, "okay how do I actually get a rootless 7th chord?" and I'd have to learn rules that aren't really a matter of theory, but more of style. And those will be inconsistent.

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