RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

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sadicus
KVRer
9 posts since 3 Dec, 2017

Post Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:55 am

I'm still reading and watching the tutorials I'm not looking for a 10 min video introduction to how to compose. How to get the built in "Stereo Grand" generators to make a sound from the demo chord?
MIDI + ASIO Audio is setup, audio test tone is audible, so when play is pressed where is the sound?
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Last edited by sadicus on Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
sadicus | CbB 2019 - ASIO | win10 | Kontakt 5

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sadicus
KVRer
9 posts since 3 Dec, 2017

change velocity 127?

Post Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:34 am

is there a way to regulate the the ear smashing midi 127?
sadicus | CbB 2019 - ASIO | win10 | Kontakt 5

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3568 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 am

You won't get sound for an empty track. Insert a few phrases from the phrase browser.

If you select a phrase in the browser, you can either drag and drop it on the workspace, or just double-click where you want to insert the phrase.

You can fill a track with a phrase if you drop it on the track header, and there are keyboard shortcuts for this purpose.
E.g. to fill a track with chords with voice leading: highlight the track, then press Ctrl-Shift-H.
You'll find the rest of the shortcuts under the Settings / Keyboard Shortcuts tab.
is there a way to regulate the the ear smashing midi 127?
Yes, you have full control over note velocities, which is controlled by the Expression variation added to tracks:

Image

You can set velocities for strong/medium/weak accents, and 'Expression' is a global multiplier for note velocities. You can automate Expression, or place a small slider in the track header (like on your screenshot)

There are 3 variations that work with velocities:
Velocity: replace note velocities (automatable)
Velocity Generator: replace note velocities specified by a function
Velocity Range: replace down-beat, on-beat, off-beat, 8th, 16th note velocities with a random value in a range (automatable)

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

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sadicus
KVRer
9 posts since 3 Dec, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:49 am

Thank you for the reply. I realize this Program is very detailed, well thought out and will take some time to learn.
The Tutorials images don't match the RC3 UI and causes some confusion. It is now understood why that is (with a one man team), so thank you for manual and tutorials that are available!
sadicus | CbB 2019 - ASIO | win10 | Kontakt 5

BluGenes
KVRian
579 posts since 15 May, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:27 pm

sadicus wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:49 am
The Tutorials images don't match the RC3 UI and causes some confusion. It is now understood why that is (with a one man team), so thank you for manual and tutorials that are available!
what tutorials are you referencing? I have a vested interest in this. I want to try and make learning the software as painless as possible.

I am trying to understand the "new user" experience, meaning what you click to learn about the software.

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 am

OK, new demo user comments (re: experience <g>): (Windows version 3.71)

Very disconcerting not to be able to close dialogs with either Esc or Ctrl-W.

Disconcerting and confusing (exactly as reported above) that a "New Composition", which opens with 4 chords (and a bunch of notes) displayed makes no sound! Seeing things that cannot be heard in a music program is weird and unexpected. What is the rationale for that? I would suggest that if you want to have a visual (and not audible) display of the notes in tonalities that is not connected to actually sounding those notes then that display should be toggleable and -should not- be ON by default to confuse new users.

I've gotten just far enough into RC to realize that the capabilities are very, very powerful and cool. However, I darn near wrote it off inside of the first hour as un-understandable and un-usable.

Also, and major, the docs (the Wiki) MUST BE KEPT UP TO DATE. When the primary guide/help available does not match what the user actually sees, the temptation is very strong to just say "Done. Next!".

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:04 am

FWIW, what "saved" me was the Templates feature. By loading a Template I got something I could hear and begin to experiment with. I offer the suggestion that the new user experience might better begin with a "Demo Template", with the difference between that and a "New Composition" being explained once a few of the necessary basic concepts have taken hold.

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:12 am

It also took me awhile to realize, once certain operations took me away from the Composition View without me explicitly (knowingly) asking them to, that the CV was still available and could be returned to. Perhaps the "Start Here" tutorial could be used to make that clearer.

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3568 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:13 am

Hi sj1,

thank you for your feedback!
sj1 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 am
OK, new demo user comments (re: experience <g>): (Windows version 3.71)

Very disconcerting not to be able to close dialogs with either Esc or Ctrl-W.
There is a shortcut 'W' for closing all open layers, but I agree this could be improved.
sj1 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 am
Disconcerting and confusing (exactly as reported above) that a "New Composition", which opens with 4 chords (and a bunch of notes) displayed makes no sound! Seeing things that cannot be heard in a music program is weird and unexpected. What is the rationale for that?
The default simple 4-bar composition includes an empty track, so that won't make sound unless you add phrases to the track. Selecting the track and pressing Ctrl-Shift-H to fill it with chords. See viewtopic.php?f=285&t=480338

You can create composition templates, so you don't have to start composing with the default empty composition.
sj1 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 am
I've gotten just far enough into RC to realize that the capabilities are very, very powerful and cool. However, I darn near wrote it off inside of the first hour as un-understandable and un-usable.
I am open to suggestions, especially from first-time users for how to make the program more friendly.
sj1 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 am
Also, and major, the docs (the Wiki) MUST BE KEPT UP TO DATE.
Yes, indeed! :oops:

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:33 am

Hi Atilla,

Thank you kindly for your reply and comments!
musicdevelopments wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:13 am
The default simple 4-bar composition includes an empty track, so that won't make sound unless you add phrases to the track. Selecting the track and pressing Ctrl-Shift-H to fill it with chords. See viewtopic.php?f=285&t=480338
OK, I get it -now-. :)

At the risk of over-making the point, that track in no way looks empty!

I see 4 chord symbols. I see a bunch of notes under each chord symbol.

It's the opposite of the impression of empty.

If I saw something that -looked- empty, I would immediately aim to find something to fill it with.

Since I saw something that -looks- populated, I immediately expect to play it and listen to it.

I could be mistaken, but I think what I'm expressing here would be absolutely common for new users in general.

If you feel the need to keep it exactly as is (and I don't really see the upside of that so far ...) then I strongly suggest that the very first thing presented in the Quick Start Tutorial is an explanation that a) you are looking at an EMPTY track (despite all appearances), and b) you can fill it with chords via Ctrl-Shift-H .

Anyway, thanks very much again for your comments, and I'm sorry if I've belabored the point!

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:34 am

sj1 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:33 am
Hi Attila,

Thank you kindly for your reply and comments!
musicdevelopments wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:13 am
The default simple 4-bar composition includes an empty track, so that won't make sound unless you add phrases to the track. Selecting the track and pressing Ctrl-Shift-H to fill it with chords. See viewtopic.php?f=285&t=480338
OK, I get it -now-. :)

At the risk of over-making the point, that track in no way looks empty!

I see 4 chord symbols. I see a bunch of notes under each chord symbol.

It's the opposite of the impression of empty.

If I saw something that -looked- empty, I would immediately aim to find something to fill it with.

Since I saw something that -looks- populated, I immediately expect to play it and listen to it.

I could be mistaken, but I think what I'm expressing here would be absolutely common for new users in general.

If you feel the need to keep it exactly as is (and I don't really see the upside of that so far ...) then I strongly suggest that the very first thing presented in the Quick Start Tutorial is an explanation that a) you are looking at an EMPTY track (despite all appearances), and b) you can fill it with chords via Ctrl-Shift-H .

Anyway, thanks very much again for your comments, and I'm sorry if I've belabored the point!

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3568 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:51 am

Hi sj1,

I am just guessing but is it possible you saw the notes of the voicing editor:

Image

The chords can be previewed by clicking in the background but the chords themselves are not played as this is not a real track, just a voicing editor.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:55 am

Another suggestion -

Very early in the Quick Start Tutorial explain that the program often uses pop-up UI elements (example: Quick Suggestion) and that clicking somewhere else outside the pop-up is the way to dismiss it.

This I can see as a deliberate and useful design choice to allow the most "Rapid" composing, however it is different than the vast majority of software which expects the user to dismiss such elements explicitly (e.g. via Esc or Ctrl-W, mouse click on 'X' etc.)

You have a choice between forcing the new user into an unfamiliar software operation paradigm immediately (and risking confusion/frustration/rejection) or offering them the familiar along with (eventually, if chosen) options for what you consider a faster way of working.

Actually, in many cases, you could choose to have both worlds active at once. For example, allowing (in addition to current behavior) the Quick Suggestions pop-up to be dismissed by the user via Esc or Ctrl-W, or a mouse click on 'X'.

IOW, the fundamental expectation of users (based on years and decades of software usage) is the pop-up (of any nature) can be explicitly dismissed, leaving them right back -exactly- where they were before the pop-up was invoked.

A corollary to this line of thought is that Esc should not be hardwired to be the MIDI Panic button. Many people already have a favored MIDI Panic Button key from other software they use. Why not allow them to make RC match their already-formed working habits?

So I'd suggest that both functions

MIDI Panic
Dialog/Pop-up Dismiss

are candidates to be defined by the user via Keyboard Shortcuts.
(and personally, I would recommend not defaulting MIDI Panic to the Esc key).

Cheers!

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sj1
KVRist
93 posts since 13 Mar, 2017

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:58 am

musicdevelopments wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:51 am
I am just guessing but is it possible you saw the notes of the voicing editor:
No. I've been referring to the display

a) when the program is first opened
b) whenever 'New Composition' is selected.

It is the same display as the pic at the very top of this thread.

That's basically why I chimed in - I had the same confusion as the OP!

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musicdevelopments
KVRAF
3568 posts since 9 Jan, 2010

Re: RC3 Demo - where's the sound?

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:09 am

I see! :) Those are not notes in the track, but the background is shaded under scale and chord notes.
You can redefine the colors or remove the shading entirely if it is disturbing:

Image

You can redefine the keyboard shortcut for Panic under Settings / Keyboard shortcuts.

Thanks,
Attila
http://www.musicdevelopments.com
Innovative music software for creative musicians - home of RapidComposer and Syne

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