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SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Post Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:10 am

Forgotten one important thing about low-pass filters!
It is real to make filter in low pass mode not affecting sound's high frequences when filter is full open?
Sound from raw osc and through filter makes huge difference in hi-freqs...With filter sonigen lacks brithness and clarity, because filter cuts very high frequences even when full opened...
And changing (increasing) samplerate won't helps....
I catch myself always boosting hi freqs with EQ on sonigen's channels , because he sounds a little dull in mix with other vst's/instruments... Even when filter is full open... When listening stand-alone sounds/patches from sonigen - there is no that big difference, but in the mix the difference is HUGE !
And without that cutout of hi freqs sonigen sounds exactly like nord modular, same bright and clear sound with pleasant sharp and metallic character in sound... Adding low-pass filter in signal chain, and that clarity is gone, the magic is gone...
OR maybe adding new model like Low Pass 12C/24C (like A&B models) - is the better solution for compatibility with older patches/projects. Something like B model, but without that hi-cut.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
17158 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:13 am

That's the usual behaviour of actual analog lowpass filters - they almost never really let the full spectrum through even when fully open.

SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:30 am

But i think it is real to shift the cutoff point higher in the spectrum when it became inaudible...

This difference especially became drastic on sharp & fast plucked sounds (made only with amp adsr for example); just add fully opened low-pass filter in chain, and the attack is gone!

Update

I think it is better to make this available as an option (like another filter model, or with button on filter module that turns on "bright mode" (or on the contrary - turns off default "analog mode" :) ) with existing low-pass filters),for compatibility, and because with old filters sonigen sounds more "analogue" and warm, and with some patches with fm mod of oscillators sound became too harsh without that cutout (due to aliasing maybe). But ability to choose between warm/analogue and harsh/digital filter character is always better :) For some types of sounds like plucked strings or some percussion - this is a must have feature.

SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:48 am

I made an example patch to show how drastic difference can be in sound with filter and without. Just turn slider on X-Fader named "FILTER DIFFERENCE1" to full left or full right position...
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sonigen
KVRian
563 posts since 23 Nov, 2010

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:15 pm

Some more filter modules are on the todo list. I'll keep in mind what you say when I get around to doing them. I'll also check into the existing filter module see if I can make that open up a bit more.

Regards
Chris Jones
www.sonigen.com

SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:59 pm

And one more - right mouse button on "starting phase" knob on all osc's changes phase value on 10 degrees each move, same as left mouse button. It is real to make right mouse on phase more precise - change for 1 degree? It is useful when i try to emulte some digital oscs/waveshaping methods from summ or difference of exisiting saw/pulse waveforms.

sonigen
KVRian
563 posts since 23 Nov, 2010

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:55 am

To be honest I never considered that people might want more accuracy than that. I'll add it to the todo list.

Regards,
Chris Jones
www.sonigen.com

SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:18 pm

More accuracy is always good))
And one more about starting phase - "phase mod in" exists only in newer multisine osc, as I understand, in older modules like pulsaw, supersaw, synchro osc and wavetable - phase changes can't be calculated in realtime.
But it is one case when phase mod needed once at note start, without realtime recalcultion - when we using unison module on phase, to change starting phase of oscillators in unison. When starting phase of osc's is locked to some degree - osc's in unison starts alwys in same phase, that makes big "boom".
Setting random starting phase on osc's won't help if we need to generte sound with combination of multiple osc's with hard locked starting phases. (e.g. ring modulation, substraction, summ, etc.)
And phase mod input on "older" osc's will be useful for spreading starting phase of osc's with the unison module. At least at the note start, if in realtime it can't be done by design.

sonigen
KVRian
563 posts since 23 Nov, 2010

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:41 am

Phase mod would be expensive on the Pulsaw and Syncrosc.

On the wavetable it's more that the aliasing would be bad. With a full bandwidth carrier it produces a lot more aliasing and there's not much can be done about it. It's a design axiom I have to not make it easy for the user to create aliasing. So if a feature aliases badly I either have to find a low alias way of doing it or there has to be an extremely good reason to add it.

(That said I have been considering adding phase mod to the wavetable because it's easy to do and would be pretty useful.)

I'll add phase start knob on the supersaw to teh todo lit.
Chris Jones
www.sonigen.com

SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:51 am

Yes, i undestand about aliasing, but i talking about some "limited" and "static" mod, that works only in "note on" event, and reads phase position only in the start of event when key is pressed, without ability to be modulated from another "dynamic" sources (like lfo's) due to aliasing. It is not the "real" phase mod, but sometring like "stratring phase spread", that works only with "static" values of unison module for different starting phases ONLY on note start event. Something like - key is pressed - oscillator reads starting phases from unison module for each voice in unison, and starting phase can't be changed, until the next key is pressed...

Attached the example patch, with two polysine osc's. I talking about ability to make patch like this witn pulsaw and other osc's... Only with this specific case, with "static" unison module, affecting starting phases, not with other "dynamic" mod sources like lfo's, env's, and all another, due to aliasing...
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SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:00 am

Added a video, to show what effect i want to achieve, but with all osc's, not only with polysine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeW85A7ciIE

http://www4.zippyshare.com/v/86782767/file.html

sonigen
KVRian
563 posts since 23 Nov, 2010

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:43 am

SoulState wrote:Yes, i undestand about aliasing, but i talking about some "limited" and "static" mod, that works only in "note on" event, and reads phase position only in the start of event when key is pressed
I can see the benefit of what you suggest.

That said I dont want to start adding inconsistencies in how the UI behaves. All module inputs should behave in the same way and having one that only affects the target at note_on would break that.

I'll have a think and see if I can of a consistent way to implement it. FWIW I have some plans / ideas for V2 would enable what you want, but that could be a long way away yet.
Chris Jones
www.sonigen.com

SoulState
KVRist
136 posts since 30 Dec, 2008

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:41 am

Ok, i got it.
Also one small bug or not - phase knobs in position "0" behaves same as random, phase begins being locked from 10 degrees.

sonigen
KVRian
563 posts since 23 Nov, 2010

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:34 am

Ok I'll look into it,

Thanks
Chris Jones
www.sonigen.com

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overhishead
KVRist
289 posts since 21 Jan, 2007

Re: Support Info / Requests / Bugs / Mailing List

Post Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:08 pm

First of all, I'm here because Sonigen Modular put a smile on my face, it sounds fantastic and it works awesome.

Mind boggling skills.

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