CIRCUIT BENDING ... Mini forum in a single thread !!!

...and how to do so...
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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:46 am

spacedad wrote:wow,thanks! brilliant info. :)
gonna have to take another trip to maplin....now what am i gonna do with that single AA battery holder. :tantrum: :hihi:

maplin? you in the uk?

intel
KVRAF
2135 posts since 12 Jul, 2004 from Brave New World

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:57 am

***addressing aciddose***

Christ you lot are edgy.

Look, it pains me to agree with whyterabbyt, mostly because I think he's a pompous twat, but the facts are undeniable. Your assessment of circuit bending is inaccurate, egregious and harmful to the movement. You're turning away the very people that Reed Ghazala sought to recruit--those with a desire to experiment, but without the technical knowledge.

I can barely stomach the man's 60's hippie "far out man" attitude toward the art, but his definition and contributions are rock solid. It's the lazy c**ts with electical engineering degrees who come along and try to usurp circuit bending, instead of getting real jobs, that are ruining the movement for many of us.

And just for the record, here are all or my apparently useless* bends:

http://www.intelligentmachinery.net/?q=node/307
http://www.intelligentmachinery.net/?q=node/306 (page not entirely finished yet)

* apparently without any knowledge of electricity and electronics, I cannot create useful short circuits...
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." -Carl Zwanzig

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spacedad
KVRAF
4754 posts since 26 Apr, 2002 from the bogely factory

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:59 am

thanks vurt,i may have to save up for that one though(12 quid).:)

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:04 am

spacedad wrote:thanks vurt,i may have to save up for that one though(12 quid).:)

imo its a little more useful to a beginner, a lot of the projects in reeds book, the toys are impossible to find or are expensive. both are great books, its just for me i needed a few projects where i had the right bits, got them done and then had more confidence in just going for it.

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spacedad
KVRAF
4754 posts since 26 Apr, 2002 from the bogely factory

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:14 am

makes sense.but i've already ordered reeds book now,so it'll have to wait,i may hit you up again one day for a reminder.

_oswald
KVRian
1414 posts since 16 Jan, 2004 from doppelstädte, mn.

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:24 am

vurt wrote:a lot of the projects in reeds book, the toys are impossible to find or are expensive.
Oh f**king christ yes. I've only found one Speak and Spell and one SK-1 in the time I've been checking the half-dozen thrift stores up here...

Ugh! :x

I guess the most important thing is to learn to experiment with anything. Some of the coolest stuff I've found wasn't by bending anything documented, either in a book (that I've read) or online.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:00 am

_oswald wrote:
I guess the most important thing is to learn to experiment with anything. Some of the coolest stuff I've found wasn't by bending anything documented, either in a book (that I've read) or online.

i agree, but i lacked confidence in myself. now its open up and wet my fingers, before that i needed a couple of things to actually go right, id had no experience with electronics at all, except occassional soldering of guitar leads.
these days everytime we hit the supermarkets or local shops i pick up some sort of £2 toy, pur local oxfam has had a few good bits too, i picked up a guitar loop player for less than a beer would cost :D

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aciddose
KVRAF
12336 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:58 pm

"I guess the most important thing is to learn to experiment with anything."

i'm not trying to scare "away" anyone by saying this, but:

probing randomly should be fine in the few devices others have already probed and done so safely. you should never randomly probe or follow these "circuit bending" instructions on a piece of gear that may have mains signal running in it. you will be killed.

a basic knowledge of electronics and things like ohm's law shouldnt scare anyone away. i just believe there is a minimum amount of knowledge (five, or ten minutes worth) which this "circuit bending community" remains ignorant to that can very well save your life.

before probing anything, you should check for mains connections. in the most extreme cases you might want to use a current-limiting supply as a replacement for the existing psu in some gear. following the instructions which have been posted here will result in shorting a supply rail either mains or regulated to ground or another sensitive or high-current node and if you are holding the clips directly this could kill you.

another five-second-to-learn tip: never use anything other than your right arm to manipulate a probe in a live circuit. do not use a grounding wire while probing in this fashion. keep your left hand away from any solid surfaces, keep it somewhere like your lap.

also, i would advise strongly against using this method on gear of any significant value. following the instructions as posted here by others will always result in damaged or destroyed circuits.

with some basic knowledge however you can apply this method anywhere. you must simply make some different types of probes with dc impedance (10u ceramic capacitor), low impedance (100ohm), high impedance (100kohm) and so on. this will keep both you and your gear safe when used at the proper times.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58784 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:03 pm

actually, all the books or blogs ive ever read about circuit bending state to only ever use battery powered items for bending.
it is you who is ignorant of the bending community.

Meffy
Skunk Mod
20867 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:03 pm

Very sound advice even so. Not everyone will have read those materials, and it can't hurt to know the why as well as the what.

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aciddose
KVRAF
12336 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:28 pm

a high current battery like those used in automobiles can easily kill you as well. just remember that you only need 25mA through the heart to upset it's beating (fibrillate) and potentially cause death. the main limiting factor for this is the human skin's capacitive nature. a pulse with a high slew-rate like that out of a camera's flash capacitor (also battery powered) satisfies this requirement perfectly. the high frequency switch mode pulse circuits in devices like the tb-303 (also battery powered) also satisfy this.

ac current, even at the voltages present in mains (110, 220) is less dangerous than the high frequency pulses present in switching supplies, for example. capacitors are your next most dangerous device, followed by batteries with fast reaction times.

intel
KVRAF
2135 posts since 12 Jul, 2004 from Brave New World

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:47 pm

aciddose wrote:probing randomly should be fine in the few devices others have already probed and done so safely. you should never randomly probe or follow these "circuit bending" instructions on a piece of gear that may have mains signal running in it. you will be killed.
It's Rule #1 for circuit bending. I've never seen a Beginner's Guide that didn't state such in bold print on Page 1.
a basic knowledge of electronics and things like ohm's law shouldnt scare anyone away. i just believe there is a minimum amount of knowledge (five, or ten minutes worth) which this "circuit bending community" remains ignorant to that can very well save your life.
I can't recall having heard of anyone dying from circuit bending, but I appreciate your concern.
before probing anything, you should check for mains connections. in the most extreme cases you might want to use a current-limiting supply as a replacement for the existing psu in some gear. following the instructions which have been posted here will result in shorting a supply rail either mains or regulated to ground or another sensitive or high-current node and if you are holding the clips directly this could kill you.
Again, see Page 1 of Circuit Bending for Beginners. It's also important to note that I've never seen or heard of anyone bending anything that runs on 110V AC. The most dangerous circuit bending I've seen involved a menacing 9V cell.
also, i would advise strongly against using this method on gear of any significant value. following the instructions as posted here by others will always result in damaged or destroyed circuits.
As is evidenced by the thousands of successfully bent projects that can be found on the internet...

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? It really doesn't sound like you have a clue.
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." -Carl Zwanzig

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aciddose
KVRAF
12336 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Post Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:29 pm

i know exactly what i'm talking about. now you're saying though that people do indeed need to know the basic rules. you indeed can not get anywhere in "circuit bending" without knowing them.

intel
KVRAF
2135 posts since 12 Jul, 2004 from Brave New World

Post Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:06 am

What's your point?

There's a difference between knowing Ohm's Law and knowing not to lick your finger and stick it in an electric outlet. It's like an artist not knowing the particle elements of a wavelength of visible light, but knowing not to jab him/herself in the eye with the handle of a paint brush.

You don't have to know the spin of a photon to paint a picture, but even children know not to shove paint brushes into their eyes (or electric outlets).
"Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together...." -Carl Zwanzig

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aciddose
KVRAF
12336 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Post Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:01 am

you do need to know something like ohm's law to make an led light up, however.

once again, i was making the statement in response to what had been specifically asked. if you want to add an led to your circuit bend, you must know ohm's law and other important electrical bits of wisdom.

do you need to know anything to aimlessly prod around with a wire, potentially shocking yourself, potentially damaging equipment and potentially getting nothing useful out of it at all? no, of course not.

that wasn't what spacedad wanted to do, however. he wanted to make an led light up.

once again: you cant go anywhere with "circuit bending" without having some basic knowledge of electronics.

if you'd like to say that "adding an led isnt circuit bending", that's fine. that's just fine, see my comment about arguing with the mentally disabled.

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