kevvvvv's reply to recent forum mess

[meeks]

I'm just waiting around in the hope that maybe we might get assurances that this kind of thing won't happen again. So far all we've got is vague justifications for unjustifiable actions.

jeez, turn your head, kiss and make up, allready. I think everything was said; and not much more to say. Now it's just watch and see if it happens again.


PS: I found a vocoder for $795, lets start a new thread

[Markleford]

Here's a word of advice to the mods, and no I'm not talking about kevvvvv but rather all the mods including Ben. Don't ever, ever, ever delete threads unless they're actually spam from ad-bots or what-not.

That's always been my policy as a mod: lock threads instead of delete! Otherwise people will make claims about what was there and what was not and will continue to spin themselves up in a tizzy. I've also never edited someone else's post except for removing direct links to warez sites with a note that I did so (that's policy). But all other sort of rumor and invective should stay, in my eyes.

That said, one of the only threads I've locked was yet another go-round about PC vs Mac that was going nowhere fast, lacking content and high on insults, and BONES immediately started bitching about that like it was the end of the world, too! So I pretty much take his role in this situation with a grain of salt...

And speaking of whom...

I'm just waiting around in the hope that maybe we might get assurances that this kind of thing won't happen again. So far all we've got is vague justifications for unjustifiable actions.

BONES, if you weren't such a sensitive c**t that makes overdramatic claims of censorship at every turn and didn't have a self-image of some sort of hold-the-line solitary freedom fighter for electronic rights of the inferior cattle around you, maybe you'd notice that kevvvvv *is* making a concilliatory gesture that he has some remorse over what happened and will endeavor to behave in a manner beneficial to the forum in the future. Nobody forced him to start this thread, after all. He could've just let it be and let people think what they previously did.

Demanding grand proclamations, hyperbolic gestures, and humiliating kowtowing from your "opponent" is only going to make him dig his heels in further. Certainly you would rail against the same treatment in the same way (and have done so, iirc), only with the added fun of decrying "CENSORSHIP! Help, I'm being repressed!"

So let it go or leave. It's not a democracy. The only way you get to vote is with your feet, and there's the door: make your choice.

But I think most of us would rather you stay, because you're an awesome contributor to the mix in the balance. You'd be missed, but everyone else knows getting a tearful apology and agreement of your righteousness from kevvvvv is never going to happen, nor really matters even two bits in the long run.

So kick back and take a day or two off this thread. You may still think kevvvvv is a dick, but you probably will no longer feel that grinding him to dust is your personal mission granted to you from up on high. Everyone's got better stuff to do, including you.

It's over, man. All else is just post-match hooliganism.

- m

[Hewitt Huntwork]

HewittH

If you thought BONES was on a witch hunt, and you can't tolerate that, you shouldn't be a mod.

I didn't say that. Pls get your facts straight.

HewittH

I think if you love KVR so much you should own up to the way in which you've compromised it.

Pls read my statement at the beginning of this thread.

1) I'm sorry that I assumed you were talking about BONES if you weren't. Are you saying that the thread BONES started turned into a "witch hunt" and your distaste for that caused you to delete the thread? Pls get my facts straight? What exactly do you think these threads are about? We are responding to the few facts we have because you deleted the rest.

2) Your statement at the beginning of this thread does not address what I think is called for here. If it did, I wouldn't have written what I wrote. There's a difference between saying "sorry for the recent mess" and doing what I referred to as "owning up to the way in which you've compromised it (KVR)". I don't expect you to admit that you were wrong if you don't feel you were, but I do expect you to acknowledge that some of us feel that you have been unfair. If you understand how we feel, say so, and address it. If you don't, say that so we know where we stand.

[Kingston]

*yawn*

[DJ Flexstyle]

Here's a word of advice to the mods, and no I'm not talking about kevvvvv but rather all the mods including Ben. Don't ever, ever, ever delete threads unless they're actually spam from ad-bots or what-not.

That's always been my policy as a mod: lock threads instead of delete! Otherwise people will make claims about what was there and what was not and will continue to spin themselves up in a tizzy. I've also never edited someone else's post except for removing direct links to warez sites with a note that I did so (that's policy). But all other sort of rumor and invective should stay, in my eyes.

That said, one of the only threads I've locked was yet another go-round about PC vs Mac that was going nowhere fast, lacking content and high on insults, and BONES immediately started bitching about that like it was the end of the world, too! So I pretty much take his role in this situation with a grain of salt...

And speaking of whom...

I'm just waiting around in the hope that maybe we might get assurances that this kind of thing won't happen again. So far all we've got is vague justifications for unjustifiable actions.

BONES, if you weren't such a sensitive c**t that makes over dramatic claims of censorship at every turn and didn't have a self-image of some sort of hold-the-line solitary freedom fighter for electronic rights of the inferior cattle around you, maybe you'd notice that kevvvvv *is* making a conciliatory gesture that he has some remorse over what happened and will endeavor to behave in a manner beneficial to the forum in the future. Nobody forced him to start this thread, after all. He could've just let it be and let people think what they previously did.

Demanding grand proclamations, hyperbolic gestures, and humiliating kowtowing from your "opponent" is only going to make him dig his heels in further. Certainly you would rail against the same treatment in the same way (and have done so, iirc), only with the added fun of decrying "CENSORSHIP! Help, I'm being repressed!"

So let it go or leave. It's not a democracy. The only way you get to vote is with your feet, and there's the door: make your choice.

But I think most of us would rather you stay, because you're an awesome contributor to the mix in the balance. You'd be missed, but everyone else knows getting a tearful apology and agreement of your righteousness from kevvvvv is never going to happen, nor really matters even two bits in the long run.

So kick back and take a day or two off this thread. You may still think kevvvvv is a d***, but you probably will no longer feel that grinding him to dust is your personal mission granted to you from up on high. Everyone's got better stuff to do, including you.

It's over, man. All else is just post-match hooliganism.

- m

+1

[fandango]

... the only post worth reading here ...

+1

[eduardo_b]

Certainly one of the reasons this issue of deletion is still being discussed is because for those who participate here, the disappearance of threads destroys the very purpose of KVR boards and simply makes the process arbitrary -- based on what a moderator likes or doesn't like. Even the so-called rules are questionable when used to determine what is acceptable content in posts. The whole "don't discuss warez" rule is mindless, juvenile and without merit. Deciding that threads should be deleted because some participants are stupid and vile is a lowest common denominator approach that is grossly unfair to everyone else.

Moderators should have far better reasons to lock or delete threads than those I have seen posted so far. In fact, it should require the agreement of three moderators, and they should post their names and reasons. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be locking or deleting any threads. If specific posts within a thread are a problem, there might be reason (and it would have to be a damn good one) to edit or delete it. If an individual in exhibiting completely unacceptable behavior (and what that is should be completely obvious to others), then a warning followed by a ban might be acceptable.

Deleting or locking should be very rare. Right now there's way too much of it, and I see no justification for any of the examples I'm aware of.

[HanafiH]

Welcome to the Caribbean.

[pHz]

Certainly one of the reasons this issue of deletion is still being discussed is because for those who participate here, the disappearance of threads destroys the very purpose of KVR boards and simply makes the process arbitrary -- based on what a moderator likes or doesn't like. Even the so-called rules are questionable when used to determine what is acceptable content in posts. The whole "don't discuss warez" rule is mindless, juvenile and without merit. Deciding that threads should be deleted because some participants are stupid and vile is a lowest common denominator approach that is grossly unfair to everyone else.
Moderators should have far better reasons to lock or delete threads than those I have seen posted so far. In fact, it should require the agreement of three moderators, and they should post their names and reasons. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be locking or deleting any threads. If specific posts within a thread are a problem, there might be reason (and it would have to be a damn good one) to edit or delete it. If an individual in exhibiting completely unacceptable behavior (and what that is should be completely obvious to others), then a warning followed by a ban might be acceptable.
Deleting or locking should be very rare. Right now there's way too much of it, and I see no justification for any of the examples I'm aware of.

not the way its ever been here and hopefully not the way it ever will be as far as im concerned

deleting or locking IS pretty rare here on the whole (recent events notwithstanding)

although TBH i am currently SO tempted to just delete this thread - wind warren up and watch him go !

slainte rob

[runagate]

do it

[ctmg]

So I was reading Markleford's post, right?

I saw this:

BONES, if you weren't such a sensitive c**t

And I remembered - hey, what did Ben say about calling others c**ts or f**kers or whatever? If I remember correctly, he said a temporary ban. So I wanted to point out what a great example our own mods are setting.

However, when I tried to find the relevant thread (locked last time I saw it) so that I could quote it, I found that it was deleted.

Interesting how things come around, innit?

[eduardo_b]

although TBH i am currently SO tempted to just delete this thread - wind warren up and watch him go !

slainte rob

But you see the problem. Once the rationale for locking and deleting begins to expand, there will be even more complaining and more threads about it -- with good reason. The bargin one has to make with message boards that are vibrant and active is to leave them alone unless posts border on the illegal (in terms of the law, not one's biases). Otherwise, even though it might not seem possible, many of those who contribute the most will go elsewhere.

[pHz]

So I wanted to point out what a great example our own mods are setting.

were meant to be setting an example ?

slainte rob

[Muff Wiggler]

uh bullshit. sorry but you guys have no place telling mods when they can and can't lock and delete threads. we don't need your permission, and if you don't like it, TOUGH.

I deleted a thread last night that needed deletion. It had ONE good post in it, and four pages of people defending warez and calling each other assholes. it made KVR look terrible.

you want to keep threads from being locked and deleted? you think it's a crime when threads get locked and deleted? then i have some simple advice for you all:

FOLLOW THE f**king RULES.

Don't discuss warez. Don't engage in foul attacks against each other.

Act like decent people and reasonable fellow members, and FOLLOW THE RULES.

Otherwise, THOUGH LOVE BABY, threads are going to be deleted and locked.

Moan all you want about how unfair it is but the rules have been carved in stone for a long time.

Mods aren't here to set some moral example or defend your freedom to be a prick. WE ARE HERE TO ENFORCE THE RULES THAT BEN HAS SET. END OF STORY.

Geez.

[pHz]

slainte rob