No velocity component to grooves?

Discussion about: tracktion.com
jonljacobi
KVRian
1071 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:46 am

I'm relatively new to Tracktion/Waveform (if you've read my other posts, you're probably saying "Tell me something I don't know!") and generally speaking I'm quite impressed with 10.2. There's some amazing stuff in there.

The one thing I've found that puzzles me is the groove implementation. In most DAWs, a groove is the standard MIDI template that includes both timing and velocity information. In some you can utilize one or the other. Waveform only seems to allow timing. That's probably okay for EDM and the like, but only half the formula if you're trying for a more human feel.

Am I wrong, missing something, or is that simply the way it is?

gerk
KVRer
24 posts since 27 May, 2019

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:51 pm

In my experience in other DAWs (Reason, FL, Ableton), groove always just applies to timing.
There is a midi tool in Waveform to randomize velocity data. Page 233:
https://www.tracktion.com/wp/wp-content ... ide-v5.pdf

jonljacobi
KVRian
1071 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:54 pm

A groove has definite pulses in velocity which are not completely random. It's part of the deal with things such as the DNA templates. And Ableton definitely uses velocity. I can't say for the other two as my experience with them is limited.
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gerk
KVRer
24 posts since 27 May, 2019

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:55 pm

Those are midi clips with velocity. You can even see in your images that "groove" is set to none.

AGreen
KVRist
152 posts since 2 Feb, 2015

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:44 am

I think there's a new function in version 10 to extract a groove from midi. This might include the velocity as well but I can't test it as I'm still on version 9. Groove Doctor can extract a groove as well so it might be worth experimenting to see if this includes velocity.

I'm not sure about the situation with other daws but I don't think Sonar for instance includes velocity when you extract a groove, but I may be wrong.

jonljacobi
KVRian
1071 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:47 am

gerk wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:55 pm
Those are midi clips with velocity. You can even see in your images that "groove" is set to none.
Those are the .agr groove files themselves, which are simply two bar MIDI files, dragged to an arranger track so I could show you their contents. I should have mentioned that.

jonljacobi
KVRian
1071 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:57 am

I’ll check the groove extraction later, but I doubt it since the groove function doesn’t seem to apply it. Then again, I haven’t checked that either with a groove that has velocity variation.

AGreen
KVRist
152 posts since 2 Feb, 2015

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:38 am

Not sure if this helps but in Waveform the grooves are used for quantising an existing midi part or audio clip to a pattern/feel etc. You can however save a midi clip as a preset which will include all the velocity information when loaded back in to an arrangement.

jonljacobi
KVRian
1071 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Re: No velocity component to grooves?

Post Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:23 am

I just extracted a groove, and no velocity, there's only time-based information. I guess it's not used.

In Logic, it's time and velocity as well, and you can dial in a percentage of each, but I haven't checked a lot of other DAWs so I may have misspoken up top of this thread.

Regardless, it would be nice because just timing doesn't generally do what I want.

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