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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:43 am Re: Waveform 9 review...

MBO wrote:Well, I mean selected from the clip list in the MIDI editor window.


Oh I see.

That's rather confusing :dog:
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MBO
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28 posts since 18 Mar, 2018

Postby MBO; Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:55 am Re: Waveform 9 review...

There is a certain logic behind it. Without selection how would you know which clip is active for editing? And when the eye option would be always active, how the software should behave in situation when eye is off and selection is on? I don't want to speak for devs but I think that's the idea.
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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:07 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

MBO wrote:There is a certain logic behind it. Without selection how would you know which clip is active for editing? And when the eye option would be always active, how the software should behave in situation when eye is off and selection is on? I don't want to speak for devs but I think that's the idea.


In other softwares, the active pencil determines what is active for editing, not the selection.

Not being able to change something because it's selected is strange to me. It never occurred to me that because I selected something, that I wouldn't be able to act on it.
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MBO
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28 posts since 18 Mar, 2018

Postby MBO; Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:18 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

Not necessarily, in Reaper for example they have similar approach. You cannot turn the eye off after you select a clip.

Btw. when we are at MIDI editor - why the MIDI editor window cannot be maximized?
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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:37 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

MBO wrote:Not necessarily, in Reaper for example they have similar approach. You cannot turn the eye off after you select a clip.


In Reaper it goes by the track currently set to 'insert', not by selection. So the 'insert mode' of the item always matters, selection changes the 'insert mode' of the track.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what the pencil icon is for in Waveform. The manual says that new notes go to this clip, except it makes no difference at all. Only the current selection changes what things go to.

So I suppose the issue is that the pencil icon is not indicating anything, and the eye icon is overwritten by the selection (irrespective of the pencil icon).

I also don't have a lock icon like the manual shows.

MBO wrote:Btw. when we are at MIDI editor - why the MIDI editor window cannot be maximized?


I can maximize it on macOS and Linux (using xfce and dwm). Unsure about Windows.
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MBO
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28 posts since 18 Mar, 2018

Postby MBO; Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:55 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

Robert Randolph wrote:In Reaper it goes by the track currently set to 'insert', not by selection. So the 'insert mode' of the item always matters, selection changes the 'insert mode' of the track.

Right, but for me it's somehow similar.

Robert Randolph wrote:Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what the pencil icon is for in Waveform. The manual says that new notes go to this clip, except it makes no difference at all. Only the current selection changes what things go to.

So I suppose the issue is that the pencil icon is not indicating anything, and the eye icon is overwritten by the selection (irrespective of the pencil icon).

I also don't have a lock icon like the manual shows.

When the pencil icon is on, you can edit the notes from this clip (changing their position and length). When it's off, you see the notes but they are unavailable for editing. I don't have the lock icon too, it seems that the pencil icon took its role.

Robert Randolph wrote:I can maximize it on macOS and Linux (using xfce and dwm). Unsure about Windows.

Right now I'm on Windows and cannot maximize (no maximize icon).
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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:33 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

MBO wrote:When the pencil icon is on, you can edit the notes from this clip (changing their position and length). When it's off, you see the notes but they are unavailable for editing. I don't have the lock icon too, it seems that the pencil icon took its role.


Turning the pencil on/off on the selected track does nothing. Turning it on/off on unselected tracks makes then editable or not.

So what I've figured here is:

Selection controls insertion clip
Pencil controls editability, but selection overwrites that
Eye controls visibility, but selection overwrites that

You can change the current eye/pencil mode, but if the track is selected then nothing happens.

---

I think a large portion of this for me is that

  • The manual is incorrect/outdated and
  • It's rather easy to accidentally select a track when trying to hit the pencil icon. (This further conflates the idea that the pencil icon changes insertion, which it doesn't)
  • The pencil icon doesn't make any sense. It doesn't change what you write, it changes what you edit
  • The pencil/eye icons are low-contrast and it is difficult to see their on/off status
  • MIDI Note colour selection is awful and that sometimes makes it difficult to tell what's happening with multiple overlaid tracks.
  • Selection is per selected clip rather than per track.

I'll update the post tomorrow or tonight. Thanks for talking this through with me.
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MBO
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28 posts since 18 Mar, 2018

Postby MBO; Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:54 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

I agree to a certain extent with your findings. Functionality is quite ok for me (except MPE which could be more sophisticated as you wrote in the review) but some icons are really small (pencil, eye, tiny note expression icons etc.) and colour selection does not help to recognize which track is which especially at low volumes when everything shades into some pale stripes. Maybe contrast is a problem not colours themselves?

Let us continue tomorrow then ;)
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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:31 am Re: Waveform 9 review...

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chico.co.uk
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2059 posts since 17 Jun, 2003

Postby chico.co.uk; Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:53 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...



From there, about Stacked recording, with multiple mics ;
Robert Randolph wrote:There is one big issue though: selecting clips behind other clips is annoying. There needs to be a way to easily select clips in the background, or a way to make the ‘on-top’ clip play exclusively only for that clip.


You may know this, but one thing you could try would be to select one clip, in the properties panel choose "Select clips" then "Select all clips that overlap the selected ones", then "Create Comp", "replace selected clips", then edit the overlapped clips as a comp clip. I imagine that'd be more fun, in terms of editing, given the scenario you describe.
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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:59 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

chico.co.uk wrote:


From there, about Stacked recording, with multiple mics ;
Robert Randolph wrote:There is one big issue though: selecting clips behind other clips is annoying. There needs to be a way to easily select clips in the background, or a way to make the ‘on-top’ clip play exclusively only for that clip.


You may know this, but one thing you could try would be to select one clip, in the properties panel choose "Select clips" then "Select all clips that overlap the selected ones", then "Create Comp", "replace selected clips", then edit the overlapped clips as a comp clip. I imagine that'd be more fun, in terms of editing, given the scenario you describe.


Oh, my goodness.

Thank you. I am going to edit the post now.

You guys are great.
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Steve Bolivar
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317 posts since 24 Aug, 2006

Postby Steve Bolivar; Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:32 am Re: Waveform 9 review...

Re part 7: excellent description of the Recording Delay Compensation issue. When I first started using Waveform I thought it was odd I had to do the loopback to set the compensation. Having to redo the loopback every time I change buffer settings is a pain.
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Robert Randolph
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2064 posts since 25 May, 2003, from Saint Petersburg, Florida

Postby Robert Randolph; Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:41 am Re: Waveform 9 review...

Part 8...

http://admiralbumblebee.com/music/2018/ ... art-8.html

Only 2 more left and I'll stop spamming you guys with this nonsense :)
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gesslr
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438 posts since 8 Apr, 2014, from USA

Postby gesslr; Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:17 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

I think this "nonsense" is invaluable. I may not be in 100% agreement on some parts, but I'll be damned if it isn't thorough and brings up some good points.
------------
MacPro 5,1 | 64gb | OSX 10.12.4 | Studio One 3 | Waveform | Logic Pro X | BWS 2 | CubasePro 9|

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Naenyn
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932 posts since 26 Sep, 2013, from Arizona, USA

Postby Naenyn; Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:57 pm Re: Waveform 9 review...

Steve Bolivar wrote:Re part 7: excellent description of the Recording Delay Compensation issue. When I first started using Waveform I thought it was odd I had to do the loopback to set the compensation. Having to redo the loopback every time I change buffer settings is a pain.

Agreed. I haven't read the rest of the review yet, but I was curious enough about the latency issues you've described to read part 7. Very nice! I think I'll have to read the rest now.

On a side note, I've yet to do the loopback thing on my Mac to make sure everything is set up .. mostly because I bounce between two interfaces and the built-in. Sure would be nice if there was a better way to handle it. I've tried many other DAWs and never had to do something like this before.
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