BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Discussion about: tracktion.com
bk
KVRian
1496 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from Indianapolis

Post Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:28 pm

I've been testing W10, and ran into a problem with larger projects.

I'm importing about 30 wav files (24 bit/44.1K, 2.5 hours long each) that were recorded in Reaper.
I realize that's a lot of data, but it is one of the ways I'll need to use Waveform.
Playback stutters greatly, and the PC is brought to it's knees if I try playing sections that don't show the waveform yet (peak files?)
Yesterday, the peak files were being created at a slower speed than playback was occurring. That's when the stuttering would begin. The cpu usage screen showed 200000% usage for Audio Files Reading.

I came back to the project today, thinking maybe I had the sample rate set incorrectly, and Waveform was having to compensate for that. Sample rate was correct, but I noticed that today, the peak files were outrunning the playback, and as long as I stayed within the area where there was already a waveform there were no issues.

I also noticed that the peak files started over today, I guess because I didn't let it run long enough to complete yesterday? Also, every time I click away from Waveform to write more in this post, it starts over again.

Is there some way to force these files to be written quickly, and get it over with? Seems like they're in the background and take forever. I just tried the same experiment in Reaper (deleted the peak files first) and it took about 3-4 minutes to recreate them. A box popped up with the peak file progress, and even though it was building the files, Reaper had no problem playing the project without stuttering.

Is Waveform behaving as designed?

PierreG
KVRist
200 posts since 24 Sep, 2005

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:33 am

bk wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:28 pm
Is Waveform behaving as designed?
From my experience, yes it is.

The audio thumbnails can take a good while to generate, which once completed and you exit the edit, they should not need to be re-generated when you come back in, thus making load times much quicker. There are exceptions to this behavior that can be fickle, as in the thumbs being regenerated for no apparent reason. The devs have told me that thumbs will be regenerated if the edit has not been opened for good while, or a lot of other edits have been opened in between, I think due to limited thumb cache space, which I don't think is sizable.

Waveform also attempts to reduce the load when opening an edit by only regenerating the thumbs that are within the screen focus. This can for sure cause overload scenarios when you move around the edit and the space you move to has not yet generated the audio thumbs. With this in mind, my method for dealing with this is to zoom the edit to show all clips and let it finish the redraws before proceeding. This has worked well to reduce stress induced by the behavior you describe.

Hope this helps.

PS / Update: I've requested that the upper right corner task box show the progress of audio thumb generation, which was declined by the devs. I think this would be an excellent use of that function, in that you could easily monitor the progress and take a break until it's finished. It currently shows proxy generation and such, so it seems strange that the thumb status is not included.

anbz
KVRist
100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:40 am

Hello. I'm happy to read about this issue I talked about some months ago in this thread :
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=437281&hilit=redrawing+waveforms

Last answer was this one :
Sorry, this is in the backlog but I'm not sure if it's possible to do without breaking the possibility to use external editors.
It might have to get added as a setting but it's pretty low priority I'm afraid as it's not an issue for a large proportion of people.

It's still for me a real issue when I work with clients in front of the screen, mixing dozens of long tracks with dozens of greedy plugs.
Seems like Waveform is not really designed to work on big projects. ;-(

PierreG
KVRist
200 posts since 24 Sep, 2005

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:31 am

anbz wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:40 am
Hello. I'm happy to read about this issue I talked about some months ago in this thread :
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=437281&hilit=redrawing+waveforms
Thanks for sharing this! After reading through the whole thread, it appears that the source of the issue was based in opening Windows explorer while the thumbs are being generated in Waveform, which stops the redraw process. The video you shared is no longer available on Dropbox, so I may be misunderstanding what was described by Drow. Is it possible that letting the redraws complete before using Windows File Explorer will resolve this issue? again, sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you've shared in the other thread.

Are you still on Waveform 9? Or have you upgraded to 10? I'm guessing the problem would still be there in W10, I'm just curious if you upgraded. If you haven't upgraded, Waveform 10 is now free (limited feature version).

anbz
KVRist
100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:15 am

Hello. Im' on Waveform 10 last version but the problem exists since always.
When Waveform redraws, if you lose focus on Waveform, opening a window by example, the redraws restart from the beginning when you go back in Waveform.

PierreG
KVRist
200 posts since 24 Sep, 2005

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:27 am

Help me out, am I right in that the problem that Drow described with using Windows explorer while the thumbs are redrawing, is was what's causing the the redraw issue? If so, can you avoid using WE until the redraws are complete?

You say "if you lose focus on Waveform, opening a window by example". Does this mean ANY other Windows app? Or just Windows Explorer?

Again, the video you shared in that thread is no longer available, so I can't see what you're describing.

anbz
KVRist
100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:23 am

Hello. You should try yourself with a big project. Many tracks, long files...
Sorry, I don't have the video anymore but it's really easy to duplicate.

When Tracktion draws waveforms, try opening an explorer windows or any app you want, you'll see that Waveform restarts drawing background. If you go back on Waveform and redo the same thing, it happens again.

But if you leave Waveform background, the redrawing continues.
So, while drawing, you can't lose focus on Waveform not to redraw all again. It's awful.

Imagine you get a popup from any app, making you lose focus on Waveform on a big project... Pfffff.....

My other big problem if you could read all thread is that Waveform sometimes don't save calculated waveforms when you quit the app. It happens often that Waveform recalculates everything when I load an old project because informations from the temp folder have disappeared. Have you ever experienced that ? It was the same on my old PC and now the same on my MacBook Pro under Bootcamp.

PierreG
KVRist
200 posts since 24 Sep, 2005

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:21 pm

Still not totally clear. I don't see redraws when I open up explorer, or any other app, even if I open explorer to the files that are being displayed in the open edit. My projects are no where near as large as yours, yet they do contain a ton of comps (with MANY takes). Shifting focus from Waveform also does not trigger redraws. What am I missing here? Drow also mentioned not being able to reproduce this on his machines, so that's strange.

I do experience what I've described earlier, which is that redraws will happen if I've opened up enough other edits, and then come back to one that's been recently opened. This seems to be to do with a limit of how much thumb caching space Waveform has to work with. I don't think this is sizable. Then as Drow has pointed out, if there's any file changes in the temporary edit related files, this will trigger redraws. Again, perhaps antivirus or some other app is making mods / attribute changes that are triggering the redraws? Edits will also redraw after not being opened for a set period of time. Not sure why that's the case, yet I'm pretty sure Drow verified this design.

If you're into it, please give an exact (every detail of what you're doing, and what programs are open) play by play that causes the redraws.

anbz
KVRist
100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014

Re: BR: W10 10.3.1 Performance issues with large projects?

Post Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 pm

I will prepare a movie again to show you so. Will be clearer.
I precise that the redrawing restarts (Chen opening a window, etc...) only if Waveform is redrawing. Not if all waveforms have already been calculated. Come back as soon as...

Return to “Tracktion”