Some questions about the CMI V?

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KVRist
212 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:03 pm

How do switches work and what do they do? I can't for the lie of me figure that out.

What does it mean when a sample has an asterisk next to it (when it's in a patch, not just the browse list).

I've noticed some samples (and they are samples, not spectral synth/time synth parts) aren't actually in the library. One patch has a sample called 'Omnichord*' but I can't find it anywhere browsing.

Are there any other archives for fairlight samples freely available online? I have of course googled, but all I turn up are dead links or files formatted for other systems (like Kontakt, for instance).

Thanks

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KVRAF
1912 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:52 pm

Arturia doesn't seem to document what the switches do. According to the manual, they're for "macro controls for sound parameters. Depending on the loaded sound, the macro controls provide different parameters". I couldn't find anything else on them.

When a loaded patch has an asterisk next to the name, that means it's been "altered" somehow -- even if all you did was move the modwheel. The same goes for individual samples that make up a patch: it just means it's been "altered" somehow, even if the alteration wasn't permanent. In the case of individual samples, an asterisk might mean the sample or loop start/end time was adjusted (even if it was then moved back to the original position) or something like that.

Which patch uses "Omnichord"? I couldn't find it on my CMI V. Some of the patches are Arturia's own creations and weren't part of the original CMI factory library. Arturia's samples are stored in a different directory than the original factory samples, but are usually based upon the factory samples. Some aren't, and those samples might be embedded in the patch.

There are several Fairlight CMI samples available online. One is here: http://www.nattvard.com/iix/database.php (scroll down to the "New Voice Disks" section). Unfortunately, two of the largest repositories of original CMI samples are gone. You might find people willing to share what they have, however. Some had to be converted from original CMI disk images (which I've done, and it isn't fun), but if you can find people to share them, you'll get a few more usable samples. There aren't a lot however, and from what I've read, there weren't many (if any) third-party sample developers for the CMI IIx, so you won't find too many abandoned or shared commercial libraries.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

KVRist

Topic Starter

212 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:53 am

planetearth wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:52 pm
Arturia doesn't seem to document what the switches do. According to the manual, they're for "macro controls for sound parameters. Depending on the loaded sound, the macro controls provide different parameters". I couldn't find anything else on them.

When a loaded patch has an asterisk next to the name, that means it's been "altered" somehow -- even if all you did was move the modwheel. The same goes for individual samples that make up a patch: it just means it's been "altered" somehow, even if the alteration wasn't permanent. In the case of individual samples, an asterisk might mean the sample or loop start/end time was adjusted (even if it was then moved back to the original position) or something like that.

Which patch uses "Omnichord"? I couldn't find it on my CMI V. Some of the patches are Arturia's own creations and weren't part of the original CMI factory library. Arturia's samples are stored in a different directory than the original factory samples, but are usually based upon the factory samples. Some aren't, and those samples might be embedded in the patch.

There are several Fairlight CMI samples available online. One is here: http://www.nattvard.com/iix/database.php (scroll down to the "New Voice Disks" section). Unfortunately, two of the largest repositories of original CMI samples are gone. You might find people willing to share what they have, however. Some had to be converted from original CMI disk images (which I've done, and it isn't fun), but if you can find people to share them, you'll get a few more usable samples. There aren't a lot however, and from what I've read, there weren't many (if any) third-party sample developers for the CMI IIx, so you won't find too many abandoned or shared commercial libraries.

Steve
Thanks.

The patch in question is called 'Mission', it's in the Keys section. The first sample is called 'Omnichord'. It's showing as a sample, not a time synth or spectral synth source.

I have to say I found the manual a bit lacking. I'm still none the wiser on switches, i don't really know what macro controls are. Also the sequencer is oddly counter intuitive. It doesn't seem to sync to midi in the traditional way, and I'm unclear on what Polyrthyhm actually does.

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KVRAF
1912 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:08 am

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:53 am
planetearth wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:52 pm
Arturia doesn't seem to document what the switches do. According to the manual, they're for "macro controls for sound parameters. Depending on the loaded sound, the macro controls provide different parameters". I couldn't find anything else on them.

When a loaded patch has an asterisk next to the name, that means it's been "altered" somehow -- even if all you did was move the modwheel. The same goes for individual samples that make up a patch: it just means it's been "altered" somehow, even if the alteration wasn't permanent. In the case of individual samples, an asterisk might mean the sample or loop start/end time was adjusted (even if it was then moved back to the original position) or something like that.

Which patch uses "Omnichord"? I couldn't find it on my CMI V. Some of the patches are Arturia's own creations and weren't part of the original CMI factory library. Arturia's samples are stored in a different directory than the original factory samples, but are usually based upon the factory samples. Some aren't, and those samples might be embedded in the patch.

There are several Fairlight CMI samples available online. One is here: http://www.nattvard.com/iix/database.php (scroll down to the "New Voice Disks" section). Unfortunately, two of the largest repositories of original CMI samples are gone. You might find people willing to share what they have, however. Some had to be converted from original CMI disk images (which I've done, and it isn't fun), but if you can find people to share them, you'll get a few more usable samples. There aren't a lot however, and from what I've read, there weren't many (if any) third-party sample developers for the CMI IIx, so you won't find too many abandoned or shared commercial libraries.

Steve
Thanks.

The patch in question is called 'Mission', it's in the Keys section. The first sample is called 'Omnichord'. It's showing as a sample, not a time synth or spectral synth source.

I have to say I found the manual a bit lacking. I'm still none the wiser on switches, i don't really know what macro controls are. Also the sequencer is oddly counter intuitive. It doesn't seem to sync to midi in the traditional way, and I'm unclear on what Polyrthyhm actually does.
Arturia doesn't do a very good job on their manuals. I know the CMI V Sequencer is based upon the "Page R" in the original CMI IIx (which was fairly limited), so that may be why it doesn't seem as intuitive as you might like. I've never used it, but the "polyrhythm" feature is where CMI V allows you to set the tracks in the Sequencer to different lengths. This would have one track starting over before the other has finished. So if one track had 6 beats in it and one had 4, as they looped, you'd hear different "rhythms". It can be pretty cool, once you get the hang of it and have an idea of how to get the most out of it.

I'll look at the patch you mentioned to see what I can find about it when I get back to my DAW. If you can't wait, you can "open" Arturia's CMI V patches with Notepad (if you're on a PC). Inside, you'll find out everything you wanted to know about the patch -- and then some. Just make sure you don't change anything, and if you're prompted to save the file when you close it, do not save it.

Steve
Last edited by planetearth on Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

KVRian
857 posts since 26 Apr, 2019 from Netherlands

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:38 am


KVRist

Topic Starter

212 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:51 am

Thanks. It's not a huge issue, i just like the Omnichord sound and would have liked to use it but if that sample has been mislabelled looking for it in the browser is going to be tall order!

Also can i assign mixer fx to Functions, or just the stuff in the control screen (sample length, filter etc)?

KVRist

Topic Starter

212 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:52 am

Sorry but I'm not paying to learn how to play the damn thing, that's outrageous! I paid less for the license transfer than he's charging. SMH

KVRian
857 posts since 26 Apr, 2019 from Netherlands

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:55 am

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:52 am
Sorry but I'm not paying to learn how to play the damn thing, that's outrageous! I paid less for the license transfer than he's charging. SMH
I believe I saw a 7 days free offer.

KVRist

Topic Starter

212 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:59 am

I'll check it out, but I'm not big on signing up for trial methods as they most likely want your credit card details regardless.

Sorry I appreciate the link, but i have a real problem with people gatekeeping knowledge like this. Especially for the sake of a piece of synth software. I'll ask on the Arturia forums.

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KVRAF
1912 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:08 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:03 pm
How do switches work and what do they do? I can't for the lie of me figure that out.
Okay, I figured it out. The Switches and Control Sliders are editable from the "Assign" screen. You just click on the "MAP" button above a Switch or Control Slider, and program it to whichever parameter in section below that you want to control. It's like assigning MIDI control to something. When you're done, just click "MAP" again to assign the Switch or Control Slider, and you're done.

If you mouse over the "MAP" buttons for the Control Sliders or Switches before you program them, whatever they're assigned to below will light up/change color. This will let you know which Sliders and Switches are already programmed (so you don't overwrite them), and also give you some idea of how to use them. Keep in mind that a Slider or Switch can control more than one thing at once, and can control them with various "offsets", too. That means that turning one thing on with a switch could also turn off something else, if you want. And the Sliders don't have to adjust things from 0 to the full value; some could start near the middle, for example.

Remember to click "Save" to save your Slider and Switch assignments while you're in this window, and to save the preset itself when you've finished mapping all your MIDI controllers in the patch.

The "Functions" sliders work the same way for whatever you program on the "Functions" screen.

Then, when you go back to the "Main" screen (where you can see the keyboard) and expand it, you can click on "MIDI" and see what's assigned. From there, you can assign whichever MIDI controller you want to any of the six Control Sliders or Switches. They're labeled "Cntrl1" and "Swtch1" through "Cntrl6" and "Swtch6".

You can also leave the expanded window open while you're editing the Sliders and Switches to see what they're assigned to. As you click on a Slider or Switch, it will be highlighted in the list of MIDI controllers on the right.

This is actually pretty slick, though Arturia could've done a much better job documenting it! I just had to play around with it for a minute. I've never really gone into anything other than the sample edit, mixer and tune/map screens, but I think I'll spend more time here, now that I know what it can do!

Steve

EDIT: I just found out this was on page 41 of the manual! :dog: I couldn't find it earlier, but I must have been using the wrong terms for searching.
Last edited by planetearth on Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

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KVRAF
1912 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:56 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:03 pm
I've noticed some samples (and they are samples, not spectral synth/time synth parts) aren't actually in the library. One patch has a sample called 'Omnichord*' but I can't find it anywhere browsing.
The "Omnichord" sample is actually in the Samples folder (in a sub-folder), but it doesn't sound like what you hear in the CMI V preset. It sounds like a short sample of an Omnichord note.

If you want to use the "Omnichord" sample the way it sounds in "Mission" but in something else, you can just edit the preset, remove the "visitor" "sample" (which itself is not a sample, but part of one), and just save this as a new preset. Otherwise, the sample itself is just "omnichord.wav". Depending upon which OS you're using, you should be able to search for it and find it wherever your Arturia samples are stored.

Hope that helps!

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

User avatar
KVRAF
1912 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:04 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:51 am
Thanks. It's not a huge issue, i just like the Omnichord sound and would have liked to use it but if that sample has been mislabelled looking for it in the browser is going to be tall order!

Also can i assign mixer fx to Functions, or just the stuff in the control screen (sample length, filter etc)?
It doesn't appear you can. The Functions appear to be for modulating playback of the samples, not the entire preset.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

KVRist

Topic Starter

212 posts since 31 Dec, 2020

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:17 am

Thanks for the replies.

I watched the Sonic Acadmey video, it's still not entirely clear, but that's me I guess :D

Let me see if I have this straight, because I'm sure it's not terrifically complicated I hope:

1. Functions can be assigned to sources which allow you to draw modulation shapes in the Function tab and then modulate accordingly, including the Evolution tab for all sound sources (sample,time or spectral).
2. Multiple sources can be mapped per function
3. You can also map to Control (faders) and Switch parameters. Switches can only have one soruce. I'm still not entirely clear why you'd use them specifically.
4. Control faders (and switches?) can be presunmably automated in your DAW. I believe they canbe assigned to midi controller parameters, like velocity. I'm assuming that's why they exist separate to the Functions
5. In the video the guy was explaining that you can use the Control tab in the Functions menu to draw in a control curve for the fader and that you can use this to control the rate of the lfo shape you set in the Function. That's where I get confused.

TBH this may well be stuff you never use :D

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KVRAF
1912 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:17 pm

ghostwhistler wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:17 am
Thanks for the replies.

I watched the Sonic Acadmey video, it's still not entirely clear, but that's me I guess :D

Let me see if I have this straight, because I'm sure it's not terrifically complicated I hope:

1. Functions can be assigned to sources which allow you to draw modulation shapes in the Function tab and then modulate accordingly, including the Evolution tab for all sound sources (sample,time or spectral).
2. Multiple sources can be mapped per function
3. You can also map to Control (faders) and Switch parameters. Switches can only have one soruce. I'm still not entirely clear why you'd use them specifically.
4. Control faders (and switches?) can be presunmably automated in your DAW. I believe they canbe assigned to midi controller parameters, like velocity. I'm assuming that's why they exist separate to the Functions
5. In the video the guy was explaining that you can use the Control tab in the Functions menu to draw in a control curve for the fader and that you can use this to control the rate of the lfo shape you set in the Function. That's where I get confused.

TBH this may well be stuff you never use :D
I'll see if I can help clarify some of your points/questions. (I tried to do this by replying after each of your points/questions, but something about the way the site has formatted your ID makes it difficult, and my responses looked like they were still part of your questions, even though I was using the "quote" tags properly.)

1. I assume you got that from the Sonic Academy video. I'll assume this is correct, since this is basically what the manual also says.

2. Yes, multiple sources can be mapped to a Function.

3. You'd use a Switch where a parameter only has an "on/off"/"either/or" option, whereas you'd use a Slider where a parameter has a range of options. For example, you'd use a Switch to enable (or disable) looping or portamento -- anything that's represented by a box, not a slider.

4. As I mentioned yesterday, some are already assigned to MIDI controllers, but you can override them and set them to whatever you want. That's not why they're different from Functions, though: Functions are more powerful ways of modulating the "Source" (the sample or time/spectral synth sound) in real time.

5. The manual also mentions how you can draw an LFO shape to assign to a function. It can be done, but it isn't very easy, from what I've seen. You might want to find a tutorial video on just this issue. There are some good videos on YouTube that go deep into Arturia's synths -- much, much deeper than the videos Arturia makes. For example, I'm half-way through a 7-part series of videos on digging deep into the ARP 2600 V3, and learning how to get more than just R2-D2 sounds out of it.

6. You're probably right. There's something about adding layers of extensive, real-time modulation to an 8-bit sample that's supposed to sound like it's from 1982 -- when such real-time modulation wasn't even possible. It kind of defeats the purpose. For general music making, I doubt any of this would be much use. But for sound design, I could see where it would be great. I just bought some of Arturia's banks for the CMI V and Synclavier V since they're half price right now. I'm going to see what "real" sound designers do with the synths and with all the real-time control options Arturia offers in both synths. The presets in the banks sound really good for Ambient, Cinematic, or Game music and I'm hoping I can learn something for the $8.64 both banks cost!

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm always looking for collaborators....

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