KVR Audio

AdamWysokinski · Post by **AdamWysokinski** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:52 am

Hi,
I design sounds for my own productions (ambient) and want to learn modular synthesis. I have some programming background and already started learning SuperCollider.

As I would also like something with graphical interface and easy integration with my DAW (I'm on Logic), I'm looking for your recommendation which one (Bidule or Reaktor) is better as a long-term investment of my time spent on learning. I've tried demos of both Bidule (nice, quite intuitive, love the ability to use AU and VST plugins) and Reaktor (I like its GUI, dislike its appetite for CPU power).

Regards,
Adam

CinningBao · Post by **CinningBao** » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:39 pm

Hi Adam,

Well I thought you would have got a few more responses by now.. so I'll give you my opinion on these things..

I think it entirely depends on what you want to make, how you want to use it and how you want it to look. You spotted one of the BIG things Bidule can do; load VSTs/AUs - and if you want to make environments for modulating your favourite synths and effects, with the potential to write your own effects or synths should you choose to, go Bidule.

If you want access to a library of thousands of other people's (ranging from cruddy to spiffing) synths and effects, which you can then connect any which way you desire, including using the much-loved Blocks (investigate if you need - it's as close to high-level modular synthesis as you'll get in Reaktor) part of Reaktor.

Interesting things about these two products is that one will gon into the other, but not the other way round.. (Reaktor instruments can run in Bidule, but Bidule cannot be loaded into a Reaktor environment)

The GUI in Bidule _will_ get better at some point, we have been promised, and there is a way to make your own GUIs for your Bidule groups/layouts using OSC, but it's fiddly and isn't entirely intuitive. So far, I've been happy enough to make do with the basic GUI stuff Bidule offers.

So, as you can see, it isn't easy - I been using both for around 10-12 years, but I always start with Bidule. It maybe that working from top-down just sits with me a little better than left-to-right (reaktor), but then, if that were true I would be using PD a lot more soo..I dunno. They've both got their uses, and USPs.

I would say this; Bidule integrates, from my perspective, much better into Logic. For example, Bidule appears in the MIDI FX menu, Reaktor does not. However, there are limits when it comes to transmitting MIDI to the various internal Bidule ports - the AU(2?) framework currently only allows for one MIDI route; the new AU3(?) will have more.

That should be enough to start you off.

Click my channel to subscribe!

cheers,
Matthew

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:03 pm

Bidule isn't as low level as reaktor core .

AdamWysokinski · Post by **AdamWysokinski** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:51 am

Thanks for your replies. After having stability problems and several minor glitches with Bidule, I decided to go for Reaktor. Now, back to learning and creating

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:54 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:Bidule isn't as low level as reaktor core .

But there is a proper SDK, so you can write your own modules in native code.

Glyn Darby · Post by **Glyn Darby** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:30 pm

Hi mate,
what about this, its amazing.

Cheers Glyn.

https://vcvrack.com/

sergiofrias · Post by **sergiofrias** » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:08 am

+1 for VCV Rack

dformd · Post by **dformd** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:00 pm

Reaktor can be used to make great alternative interfaces for Bidule creations, and plugins hosted in Bidule with Bidule's Parameter Linking/Mapping feature. This is one of my favourite features of Bidule; super quick and useful.

Actually, there are many things I absolutely love about Bidule (It's been my main go-to modular environment for something like 13 years), but I won't go on as it seems you've made your decision.

CinningBao · Post by **CinningBao** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:14 pm

AdamWysokinski wrote:Thanks for your replies. After having stability problems and several minor glitches with Bidule, I decided to go for Reaktor. Now, back to learning and creating

You're probably bored of this topic by now (and deep in NI Core!) but I should mention that the Plogue guys who make Bidule would probably like to hear what instability and glitch issues you had with it. And, to be honest, I'd like to understand what problems you had.

I, like our friend dformd here, have been using Bidule for 12-13 years and consider myself fairly familiar with it's quirks, so I find it hard to understand what a first time user could experience with regard to glitches and instability.

Would you care to touch on these here? The company is itself quite small so they do not have arms reaching regularly into forums like this to resolve customer issues, and if I can prevent another user from turning away from Bidule due to the issues you experienced, then I'm doing my 'job' (I'm not employed by them) at widening the userbase.

Much appreciated
CB

ghettosynth · Post by **ghettosynth** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:36 pm

dformd wrote:Reaktor can be used to make great alternative interfaces for Bidule creations, and plugins hosted in Bidule with Bidule's Parameter Linking/Mapping feature. This is one of my favourite features of Bidule; super quick and useful.

Actually, there are many things I absolutely love about Bidule (It's been my main go-to modular environment for something like 13 years), but I won't go on as it seems you've made your decision.

No, please go into it because I'm still on the fence about Bidule. Tell me more about "parameter linking" and how you create alternative interfaces with Reaktor.

AdamWysokinski · Post by **AdamWysokinski** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:51 pm

CinningBao wrote:
AdamWysokinski wrote:Thanks for your replies. After having stability problems and several minor glitches with Bidule, I decided to go for Reaktor. Now, back to learning and creating
You're probably bored of this topic by now (and deep in NI Core!) but I should mention that the Plogue guys who make Bidule would probably like to hear what instability and glitch issues you had with it. And, to be honest, I'd like to understand what problems you had.

Much appreciated
CB

Hi,
These were quite non-serious problems, but also relatively frequent - mostly GUI glitches of internal modules. Also some crashes, which gave me impression of Bidule being relatively unstable. But I was at OS X High Sierra at that time, so this could be the culprit.

While I decided to focus on Reaktor, I will try Bidule again in the future.

Regards,
Adam

AdamWysokinski · Post by **AdamWysokinski** » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:55 pm

dformd wrote:Actually, there are many things I absolutely love about Bidule (It's been my main go-to modular environment for something like 13 years), but I won't go on as it seems you've made your decision.

Please go on, I'm open to learn new things

I could use Bidue to complement Reaktor ensembles, not as its replacement.

Adam

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:00 pm

No one mentioned Max/MSP or the free Pd yet. Both can be considered as well, unless you want to use them as plug-in...
I integrate Max with Logic or any other DAW by sending audio via my spdif outputs, connected to spdif input on my interface. Or you use soundflower...

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:29 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:
gentleclockdivider wrote:Bidule isn't as low level as reaktor core .
But there is a proper SDK, so you can write your own modules in native code.

You mean the expression / function bidule etc...?

CinningBao · Post by **CinningBao** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:40 pm

Nope. "Build your own Bidule"

https://www.plogue.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1804

Newbie in modular synthesis: Bidule or Reaktor?