Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

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antic604
KVRAF
2447 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:44 am

Before some of you run to Google, no - PH hasn't released Reason v11 with improved workflow, but instead last week they've released a PolyStep player, which is basically a sequencer device you put before instrument (like "our" Note FX) and it generates or alters notes. After playing with it for a bit and encouraged by discussion on ReasonTalk forum I though it would be interesting to kick around some ideas inspired by it, that could be implemented into Bitwig's piano roll.

1) Clip could have a Key & Scale defined, so that all the notes falling outside of it are hidden and cannot be chosen. Alternatively, clip could follow a global Key & Scale in a manner of Chord Track known from Cubase or Studio One (that can be faked with Multi-Note, Diatonic Transposer and Note Pitch Shift, but it's really painful to set up).

2) If you'd select a part of clip - a vertical slice, a rectangular area - you could generate random notes following the Key & Scale and perhaps other settings like likelihood that notes overlap (legato), density of the pattern, variation in terms of velocity, length, etc. You would also be able to select existing notes and alter them as above.

3) You could select a single note and drag it up to create a chord (again, following specified Key & Scale) so the longer you drag it the more notes are added and - with modifier key - you'd change the form / voicing of the chord; you could drag it to the sides to create arps or strums, with additional options to finetune them.

4) You could add conditional triggers to notes, not unlike in Elektron devices, so simple probability of the note getting triggered but also more deterministic stuff: only trigger when previous note was triggered (or only when it wasn't), trigger it every 2nd time the loop plays, trigger only on 1st or 4th loop play (great for rides or breaks), etc.

What you think? :)

Check the video of how Reason's PolyStep works:

https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... sequencer/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xo4YmEGlxY
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

kpv
KVRist
123 posts since 13 Mar, 2018

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:09 am

Oh, how I've wished for a proper full featured polyphonic midi step sequencer for Bitwig. :pray:

zippybungle
KVRer
14 posts since 9 Jan, 2016

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:31 am

+Add me to that list

askewd
KVRian
767 posts since 6 Nov, 2004 from UK

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:12 am

Now that the devs have completed the main body of work of "the grid" and will therefore undoubtedly have tonnes of free time on their hahds (πŸ˜‚) it would be very cool if they gave the piano roll some real love & attention.

While it is currently "adequately functional" it's also a bit basic & somehow sluggish.

I'm sure they could really do some innovative things if they put their mind to it.

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JHernandez
KVRist
475 posts since 7 Dec, 2017

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:04 am

"Creating compelling chord progressions traditionally requires an advanced understanding of music theory." :roll:

That's a funny video. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when he said "or switch to sequencer mode to overdub your own melody using your favorite midi controller" :lol:

". . .without interrupting your creative workflow . . ." Stops to fiddle around with stuff for the next 45 minutes on a loop. Totally forgot what I was doing. :wink:

I thought people liked Scaler, instachord, ect. Are these other midi generators resource hogs? Is it the arp?

But yeah, I'm all for it. Why not? Toss it into the piano roll.

hmm feel like Iv'e seen this video before, just can't remember . . . no matter.
-JH

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antic604
KVRAF
2447 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:20 am

JHernandez wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:04 am
I thought people liked Scaler, instachord, ect. Are these other midi generators resource hogs? Is it the arp?
Nope, they just generate or alter MIDI.
JHernandez wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:04 am
hmm feel like Iv'e seen this video before, just can't remember . . . no matter.
Well, Props released few Player devices, so it could be either of those:

Code: Select all

Quad Note Generator - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDP-bh6zeY0
Drum Sequencer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_XQ4qmaPA
Scales & Chords - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMqfUXlLznA
Note Echo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDaGOoNFNvE
Dual Arp - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIY4ErgmlIM
But nothing beats the hilarity of this video :D :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdd0OfMghTA
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - Psytrance in Bitwig Studio tutorial

sth
KVRist
116 posts since 20 May, 2018

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:09 pm

Re: #1, it's easily workaround-ed; add short notes for each in the key, move them all "behind" the start line, then work in the "drum editor" mode which hides any keys that don't have notes on them. One bonus of that is that the notes are now tall enough to show the name of the note on them as well.

User avatar
JHernandez
KVRist
475 posts since 7 Dec, 2017

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:30 pm

antic604 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:20 am
JHernandez wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:04 am
I thought people liked Scaler, instachord, ect. Are these other midi generators resource hogs? Is it the arp?
Nope, they just generate or alter MIDI.
JHernandez wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:04 am
hmm feel like Iv'e seen this video before, just can't remember . . . no matter.
Well, Props released few Player devices, so it could be either of those:

Code: Select all

Quad Note Generator - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDP-bh6zeY0
Drum Sequencer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_XQ4qmaPA
Scales & Chords - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMqfUXlLznA
Note Echo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDaGOoNFNvE
Dual Arp - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIY4ErgmlIM
But nothing beats the hilarity of this video :D :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdd0OfMghTA
Ah, yeah, I probably saw another one in a similar style. And yeah, Ive seen that Pulsar one. :D
-JH

x.iso
KVRist
285 posts since 27 Mar, 2019 from Russia

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:35 am

If we're talking about sequencing and stealing ideas from Propellerhead, I've already proposed to give touch keyboard a makeover and steal some features from Figure app. In case of Bitwig, it would be also great if touch keyboard could adapt to NoteFX chains in the track, to represent what actual notes will be played and show 'ghost' notes from multi-note and arpeggios and whatever else. One other thing to steal from Figure - the way Overdub works there (as additional overdub mode).

xbitz
KVRAF
2457 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:04 am

for me scale highlighting would be the top prio to able to build/see chords(and their qualities/types) in any position, to able to see intervals in any position
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwVM2H6Giro
without any thinking, best musical feature in FL for me
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

xbitz
KVRAF
2457 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:15 am

from the OP, "1) Clip could have a Key & Scale defined, so that all the notes falling outside of it are hidden and cannot be chosen" please no I would vote scale highlighting here too instead, for ex. non-scale notes or borrowed chords are super useful ones and they are out of the actually used scale, check the penultimate chord for ex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA0AL6yBoH8
they are able to add a chord progression a very special favor
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15655 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:53 am

antic604 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:44 am
3) You could select a single note and drag it up to create a chord (again, following specified Key & Scale) so the longer you drag it the more notes are added and - with modifier key - you'd change the form / voicing of the chord; you could drag it to the sides to create arps or strums, with additional options to finetune them.
Seems so much easier for me to have midi step input. So I can select a note and play whatever chord I want on my keyboard

arrakeen
KVRist
226 posts since 10 Apr, 2002

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:05 am

Love that FL feature in the video above where a 'line' plays the chords vertically.

Agree with xbits that "non-scale notes or borrowed chords are super useful". I'd still like to have a defined scale feature, but without being locked into it.

xbitz
KVRAF
2457 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:21 am

^^^ Cubase also can play different notes (chords) in the same position, it's the note selection with pressed cmd/ctrl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9njw1ujnss
0:40
that would be also acceptable (plus has a nice chord track)
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

arrakeen
KVRist
226 posts since 10 Apr, 2002

Re: Pianoroll ideas - stealing from Propellerhead Software (PH)

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:28 am

^^^ That's really nice. (I own Cubase 10 but don't use it! ;)

In Bitwig I use Scaler sometimes, but wish a similar feature set was integrated as with Cubase's chord track.

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