Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

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nbless
KVRer
7 posts since 4 Jun, 2005

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:05 pm

ok here is the thing. I absolutely hate LIVE pdc ! I use LIVE since version 2 and was interested in bitwig.. but this is unbelievable:

I put:

1 sylenth playing one sustain
8 fabfilter pro-mb doing absolutely nothing with 4x oversampling (in order to add plugin latency)
1 volume shaper making a 1/4 sidechain effect
pdc1.jpg
then BOUNCE pre-fader

this is the result
pdc2.jpg
The PDC is completely wrong

then I just moved the volume shaper so I have

1 sylenth
1 volume shaper
8 fabfilter pro-mb

then BOUNCE pre-fader
here is the result
pdc3.jpg
this time, the PDC works.
Normally, both waveforms should be exactly the same : (

This is exactly the same problem as ABLETON LIVE. Logic doesn't have this bug.
I think bitwig is really good for a lot of reasons, but this PDC problem is horrible
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Last edited by dom@bitwig on Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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virtualmark
KVRist
222 posts since 23 Aug, 2011

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:10 pm

Are you sure it's the PDC? It could be a problem with volumeshaper, maybe you should try it with automation?

I too have found that the PDC isn't right, and have emailed them. For me, the audio stays in time, but the display goes way out of sync. Which is far from ideal!

This really is a deal breaker for me if they haven't sorted this shit out yet.

nbless
KVRer
7 posts since 4 Jun, 2005

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:16 pm

VolumeShaper doesn't have this bug with Logic for example. Bitwig has a better pdc than Live, but it's not right all the time.

virtualmark
KVRist
222 posts since 23 Aug, 2011

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:21 pm

FFS! You're right, it's no better. What a joke! I just tried it, it works fine when you add latency inducing plugins after the effect. But when you put them before, the automation goes out of time!

And the display is miles out of sync, the audio carries on when the display has stopped. FFS all this waiting, and this DAW doesn't have PDC. Not impressed.

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
13472 posts since 7 Sep, 2008

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:57 pm

This was the thing most were waiting for too.
Apologies in advance while I let out a sadistic laugh.

Surely it's ok. It would have been mentioned previously.
Last edited by Mushy Mushy on Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ZenPunkHippy
KVRAF
5990 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:59 pm

Try changing the PDC setting on the Options menu.

Re-run your tests.

Different, no?

PDC works, I think the problem is the option being ticked when it's disabled.
... space is the place ...

The Mantra
KVRist
178 posts since 8 Oct, 2013

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:05 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:Try changing the PDC setting on the Options menu.

Re-run your tests.

Different, no?

PDC works, I think the problem is the option being ticked when it's disabled.
I eagerly await the OPs results.
I remember a beta tester conducting similar test and also posting picks showing good PDC so this is confusing. :?

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Ogopogo
KVRAF
2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:14 pm

^That's true, kennyda did those tests but I don't remember if it was the exact same thing. I'm really hoping there is some explanation for this.

virtualmark
KVRist
222 posts since 23 Aug, 2011

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:18 pm

ZenPunkHippy wrote:PDC works, I think the problem is the option being ticked when it's disabled.
So you recommend taking the tick out? I'll try it..

virtualmark
KVRist
222 posts since 23 Aug, 2011

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:22 pm

No, it still goes miles out, the tick doesn't even seem to do anything.

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ZenPunkHippy
KVRAF
5990 posts since 19 Jun, 2008 from Melbourne, Australia

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:24 pm

I found that with the tick on, animation of the song position did not match the automation curve. When the tick is off, the animation and automation line up OK.

Not sure about bounce. It does look like their might be a bug, but I can't tell without more testing.

If there is a problem, the big difference between this and Live is that you can report a bug and Bitwig will fix it.

Peace,
Andy.
... space is the place ...

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Ogopogo
KVRAF
2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:25 pm

But isn't the assumption that Live is reluctant to fix their PDC because it would take a massive rewrite? Hope something like that isn't at play here.

virtualmark
KVRist
222 posts since 23 Aug, 2011

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:26 pm

The audio is out of time on mine, with the tick on or off. I automated a filter over a drum loop, so that it only opens up on the snares. So it's easy to hear it go out of sync. I then put a high latency eq after the filter, no problem. I then moved it in front, and the audio goes out of time.

With the eq in front or behind, either way the display goes out of sync when the latency gets high.

3ee
KVRAF
3732 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:29 pm

I did some PDC tests while in beta and worked like it should.
Tested with some Waves and Ozone5.

Maybe the problem might be with the plugin latency reporting to host?
Try with different plugins that don't have dynamic latency and see if it goes well.. if yes, I guess than we know where the problem is.

3ee
KVRAF
3732 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Re: Bitwig PDC... exactly same problem as LIVE!!

Post Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:34 pm

another thing.... I tested "live" while playback with parallel tracks and it worked perfectly.
PDC may be working well in playback, but once exporting might not. ...

...or might be working but it will simply introduce some delay at the beginning only after bounce.

So, which is it?

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