CPU usage is ridiculous

[trevorr]

...its a shame reaper is so stale development wise.

Do you know how foolish saying that makes you sound?

http://landoleet.org/whatsnew4.txt

Anyone who reads the changelog can see Reaper's development is far from "stale" and it's still being developed faster than every DAW, and faster than many combined. Unfortunately, they might not always code according to your priorities (they certainly don't mine), but that's reality with any DAW.

Btw, they've also just added the main person behind the SWS extension to the development team, so there's a good chance of seeing a lot of what is now extension functionality integrated into the main code-base.

i know what im saying. i know thats, correct what you said about reaper being the most fastest developing daw. this is completely true. i will not argue, cant argue with that. but reaper needs needs interface, usable preconfigured tool icons, and tons of things that will make it user/ergonomically friendly. they just keep tacking stuff onto it without addressing the underlining issues.

thats needs to change. the default theme is ugly. i always hated white ties work. sorry but i do. now that guy lamda, juston needs to hire him. or silent if he was still around.

I agree, I never liked Reaper at all. Some people love it, just not me! Bitwig is light years ahead imo.

Reaper just seems like an ugly mess of a DAW. And each update seems to address a ton of stuff that nobody cares about. Whereas the Bitwig team seem to be listening and improving their product.

You just dumb to use it properly. Its a hardcore DAW not like a Toywig, With REAPER you can for example add reverb to a clip, render its tail, reverse it and put before original item with only ONE button, you can add sidechain with only ONE button, you can...do everything if you have enough brains. And who is years ahead?

[machinesworking]

Yeah it looks Bitwig is consistently performing up to about 75% of the CPU threshold of Live by many of our tests.

I am very surprised by this given that it's a fresh re-write. I always thought Live was inefficient. I wonder if it's due to the JAVA programming or what. It's not exactly a bloated program right now.

I like that the tests are fairly consistent! It would seem to me that they would want to at least match Live in performance? Diva and other CPU pigs are becoming the norm, the more cpu a developer can use the more refined the sound they can offer users.

It is odd that the latest DAW is the worst CPU wise? but with that in mind they may have thought that sandboxing plug ins, and a modular underpinning were more important than a lean DAW. Dunno? Would like at least Live's CPU use though, makes it harder to think about switching.

Honestly I'm also very seriously thinking about waiting to see what they charge for upgrades. When you invest in a DAW is one expense, but the cost to stay current is another. For me, Live 8 Suite upgrade to 9 Suite is $300, it's at the painful level that keeps me in Live 8. It's $200 for Digital Performer, this is 100% guaranteed as it's been $200 for over ten years now. There are no penalties for skipping an upgrade either.

Bitwig could win my loyalty by simply charging what Ableton charge for the 9 regular upgrade.

[Simulant]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had freeze track and the ability to totally disable a VST.

[rod_zero]

Reaper GUI stinks because reaper wasn't designed for workflow, as Live, Reason or Bitwig. Reaper is like Mathlab or Statistics software, like SPSS vs R, yes it's insanley good if you have a predefined work flow and to reconfig the GUI, menus , icons, etc.

[Echoes in the Attic]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had freeze track and the ability to totally disable a VST.

Well actually bounce in place takes the pain off quite a bit. It's usually instruments that are cpu hogs and it's usually when voices are actually being triggered that they are using cpu, so even leaving an active plug-in not playing (ready for midi clips when desired) reduces cpu massively. You can have tons of cpu hogs sitting there not being triggered without affecting cpu much. Better than freeze because you can use the instrument any time. Reaktor is the biggest cpu issue because it doesn't usually unload cpu when not triggered but at least it has it's own CPU off button to keep the device loaded but off. But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

[pdxindy]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had freeze track and the ability to totally disable a VST.

Well actually bounce in place takes the pain off quite a bit. It's usually instruments that are cpu hogs and it's usually when voices are actually being triggered that they are using cpu, so even leaving an active plug-in not playing (ready for midi clips when desired) reduces cpu massively. You can have tons of cpu hogs sitting there not being triggered without affecting cpu much. Better than freeze because you can use the instrument any time. Reaktor is the biggest cpu issue because it doesn't usually unload cpu when not triggered but at least it has it's own CPU off button to keep the device loaded but off. But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

Aalto and Kaivo both use their full cpu regardless of notes being triggered...

[Echoes in the Attic]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had freeze track and the ability to totally disable a VST.

Well actually bounce in place takes the pain off quite a bit. It's usually instruments that are cpu hogs and it's usually when voices are actually being triggered that they are using cpu, so even leaving an active plug-in not playing (ready for midi clips when desired) reduces cpu massively. You can have tons of cpu hogs sitting there not being triggered without affecting cpu much. Better than freeze because you can use the instrument any time. Reaktor is the biggest cpu issue because it doesn't usually unload cpu when not triggered but at least it has it's own CPU off button to keep the device loaded but off. But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

Aalto and Kaivo both use their full cpu regardless of notes being triggered...

Weird, I thought Aalto used more playing with more polyphony. Very rare in any case.

[pdxindy]

It wouldn't be so bad if we had freeze track and the ability to totally disable a VST.

Well actually bounce in place takes the pain off quite a bit. It's usually instruments that are cpu hogs and it's usually when voices are actually being triggered that they are using cpu, so even leaving an active plug-in not playing (ready for midi clips when desired) reduces cpu massively. You can have tons of cpu hogs sitting there not being triggered without affecting cpu much. Better than freeze because you can use the instrument any time. Reaktor is the biggest cpu issue because it doesn't usually unload cpu when not triggered but at least it has it's own CPU off button to keep the device loaded but off. But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

Aalto and Kaivo both use their full cpu regardless of notes being triggered...

Weird, I thought Aalto used more playing with more polyphony. Very rare in any case.

If you set the voices higher or lower, that changes cpu use... if it is set to 2 voices, it uses that whether the voices are being played atm or not...

[AstralExistence]

But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

but you have to ask yourself, if its not a bug, and this is the way bitwig designed there daw, and also the very poor choice of java (taking the easy way out to make it run on all platforms) people hate java good quality software should never be programmed in java for example look how much people hate the idea of minecraft made in java. then how much experience do these guys actually have. you think presonus or ableton would write there daw in java? no way.

[Ogopogo]

But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

but you have to ask yourself, if its not a bug, and this is the way bitwig designed there daw, and also the very poor choice of java (taking the easy way out to make it run on all platforms) people hate java good quality software should never be programmed in java for example look how much people hate the idea of minecraft made in java. then how much experience do these guys actually have. you think presonus or ableton would write there daw in java? no way.

I thought it was only the gui that was java.

[AstralExistence]

But yes it would be nice to know if the VST disable thing is a bug as it should really be changed to turning off the processing.

but you have to ask yourself, if its not a bug, and this is the way bitwig designed there daw, and also the very poor choice of java (taking the easy way out to make it run on all platforms) people hate java good quality software should never be programmed in java for example look how much people hate the idea of minecraft made in java. then how much experience do these guys actually have. you think presonus or ableton would write there daw in java? no way.

I thought it was only the gui that was java.

i don't know what is actually made in java.

[bulusglo]

this is the way bitwig designed there daw, and also the very poor choice of java (taking the easy way out to make it run on all platforms) people hate java good quality software should never be programmed in java for example look how much people hate the idea of minecraft made in java. then how much experience do these guys actually have. you think presonus or ableton would write there daw in java? no way.

That's what I thought.

Then I've been using BwS intensively during hours, and had to face the thruth : it's fast and stable.

Then I had a closer look :
You can opened the "lib.jar" and "bitwig.jar" files in Bitwig Studio,
it obfuscated java bytecode,
you can decompile it,
so you can see what's coded in Java and deduce what is not.
All the dependencies are visible too : Cairo, Vamp, and so on ...
It's a very modular program.

The guys at Bitwig (Claes, Volker, Nick, ... ) really know what they are doing.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Well I personally don't doubt that they've set things up in intelligent way and had reasons for the way they've programmed it. I am somewhat curious though why overall it is less cpu efficient. Is the modularity and sandboxing coming at a heavy CPU cost but more future proof? Again it's just odd that a program like Ableton Live, over a decade old code base, is significantly more cpu efficient. Perhaps it's things like PDC or other things that Ableton don't have.

[bulusglo]

!

Generalisation is inappropriate.
Everyone has to test on his own machine.
Even a software driver can make the difference for instance.

Don't trust me, test yourself.

Here the first simple comparison I do on my machine I do on mine :
- Have 1 effect track, put valhalla reverb's default preset (room)
- Have 1 one audio track, set a stereo input, leave the output to master, send 50% to the effect track, activate monitoring.

On my machine, on my current project, Live 9 takes 17 % whereas BwS takes 7 %.
It's a stable situation when a stable sound is sent from a kb.

B.

[digitalboytn]

Toywig