No normalisation?

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Coockie1176ln
KVRian
1107 posts since 30 Jun, 2015

Post Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:19 am

digitalfix wrote:I normalize everything going into a mix and then get the headroom by dropping the faders.

If you normalize to 0db and then start mixing with your faders set to the same, you're going to redline quickly. It was a good idea of Bitwig to default the faders to -6db.
https://youtu.be/7WigF9IDdcQ?t=4m6s

check that! the volume is about the internal level not the set fader level ;) the volume on wavs will affect the plugins fyi :(

NukeArts
KVRist
98 posts since 3 Dec, 2015

Re: No normalisation?

Post Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:26 am

Coockie1176ln wrote:
digitalfix wrote:I normalize everything going into a mix and then get the headroom by dropping the faders.

If you normalize to 0db and then start mixing with your faders set to the same, you're going to redline quickly. It was a good idea of Bitwig to default the faders to -6db.
https://youtu.be/7WigF9IDdcQ?t=4m6s

check that! the volume is about the internal level not the set fader level ;) the volume on wavs will affect the plugins fyi :(
I saw that too, the guy is also talking about K metering which is very usefull.
I had some issues many years ago with normalizing and my "endresult" for this topic was: never do it again and you spare yourself many issues, which are most times darn subtle technical stuff.
@offtopic: can it be that ableton normalizes just everything by default when you drag drop something in?

Coockie1176ln
KVRian
1107 posts since 30 Jun, 2015

Re: No normalisation?

Post Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:07 am

NukeArts wrote:
Coockie1176ln wrote:
digitalfix wrote:I normalize everything going into a mix and then get the headroom by dropping the faders.

If you normalize to 0db and then start mixing with your faders set to the same, you're going to redline quickly. It was a good idea of Bitwig to default the faders to -6db.
https://youtu.be/7WigF9IDdcQ?t=4m6s

check that! the volume is about the internal level not the set fader level ;) the volume on wavs will affect the plugins fyi :(
I saw that too, the guy is also talking about K metering which is very usefull.
I had some issues many years ago with normalizing and my "endresult" for this topic was: never do it again and you spare yourself many issues, which are most times darn subtle technical stuff.
@offtopic: can it be that ableton normalizes just everything by default when you drag drop something in?

yeah actually issue is not just with anloug emulated plugins.

When eq you actually phase the waveform. Can cause peaks by just lowcutting that raise peak by 1to 3+ db.
Imagine putting a compressor after eq.
meaning you will be over 1 to 3 db over max threshold of 0 db. The peaks will actually hit over. Same with limter.

k-14 great stuff. This way we dont have to worry about how the plugins are emulated. but sometime it can be a bit to much. All techincal stuff all technical. it just creates a mess if we think of this to much. But there are causes i would use normalizing. Like compairing samples i like to have peak at same to make right judgement on precieved volume of a kick sample etc. then drag it down by going in and change level of wav. (not fader)

digitalfix
KVRist
266 posts since 5 Sep, 2015

Re: No normalisation?

Post Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:15 pm

I gain stage too :)

NukeArts
KVRist
98 posts since 3 Dec, 2015

Re: No normalisation?

Post Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:06 am

I throw into the discussion: it isn't there on purpose. The algorithm and option are 0815 easy stuff to do. Thats where the Tool plugin kicks in. And the display of the waveform is a, well, a display issue. vertical zoom.

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jarnold
KVRist
134 posts since 28 Feb, 2005 from Oz

Re: No normalisation?

Post Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:04 am

NukeArts wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:06 am
I throw into the discussion: it isn't there on purpose. The algorithm and option are 0815 easy stuff to do. Thats where the Tool plugin kicks in. And the display of the waveform is a, well, a display issue. vertical zoom.
How do we zoom the waveform only in the vertical axis while still seeing the whole clip? Zooming just zooms in on a specific area.
MacPro 6,1 // Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Logic X // Soundtoys // UAD // FabFilter // Vintage Hardware

Amfi
KVRer
14 posts since 30 Dec, 2018

Re: No normalisation?

Post Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:10 am

+ for a adding a normalization feature.

I'd add it in two places (or at least that's how I use it all the time in logic)

1) in the export audio diologue. For comparing exported mixes at 0db peak level (pre mastering)

2) in the clip window

Yokai
KVRian
678 posts since 7 Nov, 2017

Re: No normalisation?

Post Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:15 am

Amfi wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:10 am
+ for a adding a normalization feature.

I'd add it in two places (or at least that's how I use it all the time in logic)

1) in the export audio diologue. For comparing exported mixes at 0db peak level (pre mastering)

2) in the clip window
And 3) In the Sampler. Especially in the Multisample editor.

andypryce
KVRist
208 posts since 2 Nov, 2014

Re: No normalisation?

Post Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:16 pm

Use it or not, normalization on export and audio edit is a standart DAW feature since dark ages. I am sure it will be added.

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jarnold
KVRist
134 posts since 28 Feb, 2005 from Oz

Re: No normalisation?

Post Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:03 pm

We can hope so...
MacPro 6,1 // Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Logic X // Soundtoys // UAD // FabFilter // Vintage Hardware

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3605 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: No normalisation?

Post Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:52 pm

Better than a vertical zoom would be a logarithmic wave display. The only DAW that can do it as far as I know is Ardour/Mixbus... But Bitwig is not so much aimed at audio editing where you‘d want it desperately...

Amfi
KVRer
14 posts since 30 Dec, 2018

Re: No normalisation?

Post Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:26 pm

logic has a button that switches to a higher vertical zoom level. that's another simple way to do it.

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Kung VU
KVRist
275 posts since 13 Nov, 2014 from Berlin

Re: No normalisation?

Post Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:48 am

To finally answer the question asked…
No, there is no build in normalisation tool in Bitwig. You could try manually raising the gain and print the files for mixing but that leaves a great risk for overlooking some peaks and could introduce clipping to the files.
I usually do not normalize my stems for mixing but I always normalise samples after topping and tailing, which is best praxis IMO.
Of course you do make the underlying noise louder by this but the noise is there to begin with. So not normalizing and then fade the tracks up if required in mixdown does not magically save you from that. If that is a problem buy better samples or improve your recording techniques.
There is also no concern for loosing any headroom since the headroom in the final master is set by the faders in your mix. So as long as you do not leave the faders at the default setting after normalizing but establish a proper mix your head room is no danger. Last but not least you do not need to always normalize to 0 db. In proper software you can choose to wich value you normalize and I usually go a bit quiter like -1 or so. It‘s just nice to have all samples at equal volume for a steady workflow and yes it does help to see the audio without further zooming.

I am on a MAc and personnally use Amadeus Pro which I absolutely love and got for a good price in a Mac Software bundle and upgraded twice already. If you have Geist 1 you can also normalize there. Sadly they discontinued this feature in Geist2 (aaargh).
Although I think normalisation should be included in any DAW this is a good work around for me as this software also allows to create stack workflows and quickly processes a lot of files that way. It also nicely works together with newer MacBooks touch bar, which is actually useful and offers direct access to most important settings like Play/Pause Audio Scrub Volume, Zoom etc.
Mac OSX 10.11.2
Safire Pro 14


https://soundcloud.com/kung_vu

Trancit
KVRAF
2446 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: No normalisation?

Post Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:00 pm

Time to bring this up again...

Normalization on clips please!!!

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JHernandez
KVRian
610 posts since 7 Dec, 2017

Re: No normalisation?

Post Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:19 am

The only time I normalize is when I'm sampling similar sounds from my computer to a hardware samplers. Often I end up normalizing again on the samplers if needed or before/if they go back into the computer, in which case I'll clean them up and finally normalize once more in the computer to make sure nothing is peaking over -11 to -6 depending on what it is and what I'm doing with it. I do this for consistency and so I have plenty of room to work with. Also, I have this really cool rare feature in my monitoring system that allows to turn up the volume.
-JH

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