launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

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xbitz
KVRAF
2279 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Mon May 05, 2014 10:03 pm

ok, I've created a topic for this: :)

Image

so...

it's not something crucial (would be nice to see it in BWS v3 ) but I'm still wondering why there is no direct connection/linking/ghosting possibility between the launcher and arrangement clips (or between the launcher clips or b1etween the arrangement clips etc. ) as was in Project5, the track based pattern ( horizontal FL Studio :ud: ) editing was a very cool/clever idea IMO

there is a nice video about the concept here :

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2005/04/ ... ject-5-v2/

from 2:30

so seems the BWS guys have taken many elements from P5 except the main one :wheee: the patterns, and I miss this feature very much (I'm mainly an FL Studio user u know :D and I think BWS was created for electronic type of music originally so a bit strange why there is no patterns in it :roll: )
Last edited by xbitz on Tue May 06, 2014 12:13 am, edited 6 times in total.
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14791 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking

Post Mon May 05, 2014 10:33 pm

xbitz wrote:
I'm still wondering why there is no direct connection/linking possibility between the launcher and arrangement clips as was in Project5, the track based pattern ( horizontal FL Studio :ud: ) editing was a very cool/clever idea IMO

there is a nice video about the concept here :
What do you mean by direct connection/linking between launcher and arrangement? You can record the played clips from launcher into arrangement. You can designate specific tracks to play the launcher while the rest play arrangement. You can drag clips back and forth... and so on... what else do you want?

xbitz
KVRAF
2279 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking

Post Mon May 05, 2014 11:09 pm

pdxindy wrote: What do you mean by direct connection/linking between launcher and arrangement?
Image

how can u change all of them in the similar fashion way ( if u have a clip which has been re-used zillion places in a project ) ?
Last edited by xbitz on Mon May 05, 2014 11:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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Ogopogo
KVRAF
2562 posts since 1 Oct, 2013

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking

Post Mon May 05, 2014 11:13 pm

He's talking about ghost/linked clips. Copy a clip into or out of the launcher, and whatever changes you make in one show up in the other.

xbitz
KVRAF
2279 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking

Post Mon May 05, 2014 11:42 pm

yepp, just download P5 from http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowled ... 2-5-Update and play its clips a bit :D u gonna miss this feature from BWS instantly (unfortunately the automation model in P5 is a totally useless one, and it hasn't got multi-core CPU support so cmon Bitwig :) )
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14791 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking

Post Tue May 06, 2014 7:45 am

xbitz wrote:yepp, just download P5 from http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowled ... 2-5-Update and play its clips a bit :D u gonna miss this feature from BWS instantly (unfortunately the automation model in P5 is a totally useless one, and it hasn't got multi-core CPU support so cmon Bitwig :) )
Ahh... reference or ghost clips... yeah, there is a convenience with that...

koalaboy
KVRAF
1781 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Tue May 06, 2014 9:02 pm

This is one thing that's preventing me 'buying in' to Bitwig at the moment. It's the same problem I have with Live.

Most other DAWs have ghost/reference/linked/alias clips, and it's something I use a lot.

What's worse, is that if you duplicate clips in Bitwig (or Live) and then change one of them, the names will not be altered if they were set, such that you now have multiple items called the same thing, that are different - this is something the DAW should handle, ensuring it's obvious that they differ.

As soon as ghost clips are implemented, I suspect I will own Bitwig. Until then, it's just another echo of Live to haunt me :/

Please Bitwig, add this, or at least state whether it will happen anytime soon !

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irre
KVRAF
4386 posts since 21 Jan, 2008 from oO

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Tue May 06, 2014 10:34 pm

koalaboy wrote:This is one thing that's preventing me 'buying in' to Bitwig at the moment. It's the same problem I have with Live.

Most other DAWs have ghost/reference/linked/alias clips, and it's something I use a lot.

What's worse, is that if you duplicate clips in Bitwig (or Live) and then change one of them, the names will not be altered if they were set, such that you now have multiple items called the same thing, that are different - this is something the DAW should handle, ensuring it's obvious that they differ.

As soon as ghost clips are implemented, I suspect I will own Bitwig. Until then, it's just another echo of Live to haunt me :/

Please Bitwig, add this, or at least state whether it will happen anytime soon !

maybe use the color tool to mark your altered regions? In cubase you also only got a region for example bass, then the names change to bass-1, bass-2, bass-3 etc..not very helpful at all i think.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14791 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Tue May 06, 2014 10:39 pm

I doubt I would use ghost clips much because I like to have variations. There are lots of features I want much more than that one.

In arrangement, you can drag a clip and loop it... which is a rudimentary ghost clip function.

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--= Ju =--
KVRist
89 posts since 16 Jul, 2005 from UK

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Wed May 07, 2014 4:25 am

I agree with the OP. I've got used to ghost / cloned clips in other DAWs so very much miss it in BWS.

Dragging a clip boundary to loop is fine for contiguous sections but the addition of cloned clips would be the best of both worlds.

Regards,
"Annoying the neighbours since '71"

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--= Ju =--
KVRist
89 posts since 16 Jul, 2005 from UK

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Tue May 13, 2014 9:06 am

Bump....
"Annoying the neighbours since '71"

digitalhobbit
KVRer
3 posts since 17 Feb, 2014

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:50 pm

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I feel the same way. Lack of support for alias/ghost clips is what's stopping me from buying Bitwig (same as it did with Ableton Live). I'm sticking with Logic Pro for now, but would really love to use Bitwig as soon as this functionality is added.

I wrote a blog post about this very topic today:
http://music.digitalhobbit.com/post/108 ... ctionality (http://music.digitalhobbit.com/post/108475643022/why-the-lack-of-alias-ghost-clip-functionality)

As I explain in my post, I'm surprised that more people aren't requesting this feature. Is this really such an unusual workflow demand?

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jamesnw
KVRer
1 posts since 5 Jul, 2015

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:49 pm

I'm also waiting for this ability. I refuse to buy into anything that doesn't offer a modular approach in this manner, which greatly helps with drum tracks, etc. I routinely change drum patterns after completing a song draft, and I'd like to do so without having to dread going over and editing very single clip throughout the whole song; Just ridiculous really.

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Regnas
KVRian
728 posts since 29 Aug, 2013

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:32 pm

+1

I'm afraid of Bitwig's future...
Their priorities are starting to scare me...
They are leaving too many basic stuff behind and putting new stuff that people never asked for.... (who requested the new upcoming browser???)....

Hmmmm....

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goatgirl
KVRian
763 posts since 11 Aug, 2014 from a hillside

Re: launcher and arrangement clip linking (the missing: patterns or reference clips concept)

Post Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:13 pm

digitalhobbit wrote: I wrote a blog post about this very topic today:
http://music.digitalhobbit.com/post/108 ... ctionality
I can't be the only one who sees the irony of the article, when talking about the DRY principle. :wink:

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