Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Official support for: bitwig.com
c-wave
KVRian
631 posts since 31 May, 2014

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:43 am

hibidy wrote::lol:

I updated. Tomorrow will hold the key. I also wanted to update my windoze graphics and maybe try that as an alternative........wouldn't install :x
Congrats on the update.
On Nvidia, try this page:
http://www.geforce.com/drivers
You might want to click on the "Detect your GPU" first, in order to guarantee that the right driver is installed (so that it doesn't reject the installation). Also, you need the latest version of Java to do that, so In case it shows the Java icon on the left, download Java first.
After that click on "download" button.
Hope that helps.

Edit: In case your driver is not Geforce, then you have to look for it in this page: http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us

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Liquinaut
KVRist
173 posts since 17 Oct, 2014

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:50 am

There's another reason why I made the step towards Bitwig (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to hear insights on this :) ):

Of course, if you compare Bitwig v1.x featurewise to other DAW's, it may not have the complete toolset found elsewhere (yet). But as DAW's have envolved over the years, so have the underlying programming paradigms. Nowadays modern Applications are fully built around a DDD (Domain Driven Design) and an archtitecture called MVC (Model View Controller), which is in fact a total modularisation of the whole ecosoystem of an application. If I would build a DAW from scratch, I would surely make use of these principles, and (as far as I can judge from the outside) Bitwig is built upon this modularity. It's not the fault of other DAW's that they are built the way they are, but making use of those (in comparison) fairly new programming structures gives Bitwig a headstart over other DAW's that don't incorprate those principles.

In practice this means: Everything is modular. Imagine the Core as a flexible Grid System that can take unlimited modules in any size that you can plug in and plug out.
Maintaining those modules makes bugfixing and updating a breeze, because unplugging and inserting such a module won't effect the system itself. Depending on the module, you can even remove it without breaking anything. Normally you don't need to backtest the whole system when you bugfix, a good unittesting system and an automated build system ensures that this certain module will work as expected.
Developing new features is easy and fast, as you concentrate on developing a new module that will just fit in the grid system. Feature upgrades are fast, and because of the modularity, again, new features won't touch and break the system as a whole.

This should make Bitwig a very extendable and adaptable system, and may be the reason why those bugfixes and new features roll out so fast. Compared to other DAW's where fixing and updating always means backtesting literally everything, this is a solid foundation for the future IMO.

And, as I said, I'd love to hear any insights on this :)

Cheers!
Discover your sound - The Sormena Project

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TeotiGraphix
KVRian
1372 posts since 28 Dec, 2012 from Meredith NH

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:24 am

I have said this from the start, I bet they even use Inversion of Control injections somewhere. :) (Spring java, oh yeah I think i saw that in their licenses, which means the UI is totaly dynamic and agile)

I have been an application/UI component dev since 2002, you can see the components barfing out of Bitwig like flowers blooming in Spring, pardon the expressiveness. hehe

Mike
Michael Schmalle
http://www.teotigraphix.com
Surfing on sine waves

Maschine4Bitwig - Studio, MK2, MikroMK2, MK1
http://www.teotigraphix.com/bitwig/maschine

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Aiynzahev
KVRAF
3566 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:18 am

LawrenceF wrote:Actually didn't know the beta was public now, I just happened to stumble on the direct link in the other thread, so I gave it a quick spin with some old stems.

I put some random impressions in the video. None of the comments have any relevance to producing music in it so keep that in mind. I had to also bring the cool cat back. :)

Nice app. :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDC9ma ... e=youtu.be
Cool thanks. For stereo enhance you should check out the Blur effect. I couldn't find any way to do bus routing any quicker either.

I think BWS as a typical DAW is probably it's least targeted role. Much like S1 is primarily aimed at recording and not electronic music. So I imagine those kinds of refinements might come later but I don't expect BWS to ever be the slickest DAW when it comes to traditional mixing duties. But you never know.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others

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Aiynzahev
KVRAF
3566 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:52 am

When I think about it, it's probably true that Bitwig's ethos, personality or whatever you want to call it is as compelling to me as the DAW.

I think we as musicians in particular care about enthusiasm and passion just as much as we care about features etc.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others

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dom@bitwig
KVRian
912 posts since 1 Nov, 2012 from Berlin

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:01 am

Aiynzahev wrote:When I think about it, it's probably true that Bitwig's ethos, personality or whatever you want to call it is as compelling to me as the DAW.
If you ask me, you can't separate those two sides... without the ethos and personality part the product would just not be what it is or feel how it feels. And to me it feels like a DAW by a small passionate boutique company, developing and soldering the one compressor model they always dreamed of instead of the product'a specification being driven by marketing and shareholders.

Cheers,
Dom

LawrenceF
KVRAF
6035 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:39 am

Aiynzahev wrote:I think BWS as a typical DAW is probably it's least targeted role. Much like S1 is primarily aimed at recording and not electronic music. So I imagine those kinds of refinements might come later but I don't expect BWS to ever be the slickest DAW when it comes to traditional mixing duties.
No doubt. That's why I put the caveat there ... "My comments have nothing to do with producing." It's clearly the case that when creating you'd be doing those routings as you go, as you add tracks and record, so you'd rarely need to quickly route 16 vocal tracks like I did there.

That's just mostly how I initially get familiar with new products, mixing first, then later maybe produce something new, try out the midi tool, etc. I find that mixing first gives me a good bit of familiarity with the basic and more common interface parts, faders, pans, sends, etc, etc.

c-wave
KVRian
631 posts since 31 May, 2014

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:05 am

Liquinaut wrote:There's another reason why I made the step towards Bitwig (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to hear insights on this :) ):
Of course your assessment is correct with respect to Bitwig but that doesn't mean that the others are not aware of the new advancements in software dev. such as MVC.. heck even I know MV* .The point is of course everybody who wants their software to advance will try to rewrite their code.
Take for example Ableton who spent so much time (3-4 years?) to get from 8 to 9.. They had no choice but bring their software up to date, and I think the move from 32-bit to 64-bit was a golden opportunity for them to do that. I don't think they had any other choice, and don't forget that Bitwig comes from the same Ableton culture.
Last edited by c-wave on Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

c-wave
KVRian
631 posts since 31 May, 2014

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:19 am

LawrenceF wrote: That's just mostly how I initially get familiar with new products, mixing first, then later maybe produce something new, try out the midi tool, etc. I find that mixing first gives me a good bit of familiarity with the basic and more common interface parts, faders, pans, sends, etc, etc.
Wow, if a software that it's owners don't even claim they made it mainly for mixing, can do that! That track becomes a big testimony to what this software can do with things (composing, producing) that its company does claim to target; in essence a software that doesn't stand in between you and your creative juices. A software that's using is as rewarding as the music it helps create.

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billcarroll
KVRAF
1841 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:18 pm

Aiynzahev wrote:I hear you. I think the two I liked most from Ableton were Grain Delay and Beat repeat. Just need to find substitutes that don't break the bank.
I'd assume Effectrix or Stutter Edit would replace Beat repeat?

Have you found anything that replaces Live's Grain Delay?

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Aiynzahev
KVRAF
3566 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:20 pm

billcarroll wrote:
Aiynzahev wrote:I hear you. I think the two I liked most from Ableton were Grain Delay and Beat repeat. Just need to find substitutes that don't break the bank.
I'd assume Effectrix or Stutter Edit would replace Beat repeat?

Have you found anything that replaces Live's Grain Delay?
I think Absynth FX might be able to replace Grain delay, but it loses the simplicity.

Effectix could likely replace Beat repeat. But I don't think it has a probability or variation setting. It's also more complicated again, but just a little. It's also another $100 or so.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others

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billcarroll
KVRAF
1841 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Aiynzahev wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
Aiynzahev wrote:I hear you. I think the two I liked most from Ableton were Grain Delay and Beat repeat. Just need to find substitutes that don't break the bank.
I'd assume Effectrix or Stutter Edit would replace Beat repeat?

Have you found anything that replaces Live's Grain Delay?
I think Absynth FX might be able to replace Grain delay, but it loses the simplicity.

Effectix could likely replace Beat repeat. But I don't think it has a probability or variation setting. It's also more complicated again, but just a little. It's also another $100 or so.
I hadn't thought of using Absynth FX. Thanks. :)

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Aiynzahev
KVRAF
3566 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:52 pm

billcarroll wrote:
Aiynzahev wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
Aiynzahev wrote:I hear you. I think the two I liked most from Ableton were Grain Delay and Beat repeat. Just need to find substitutes that don't break the bank.
I'd assume Effectrix or Stutter Edit would replace Beat repeat?

Have you found anything that replaces Live's Grain Delay?
I think Absynth FX might be able to replace Grain delay, but it loses the simplicity.

Effectix could likely replace Beat repeat. But I don't think it has a probability or variation setting. It's also more complicated again, but just a little. It's also another $100 or so.
I hadn't thought of using Absynth FX. Thanks. :)
Tons of presets on the FX version too. Haven't even begun to make my own yet.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others

jaggedarray
KVRer
23 posts since 15 Sep, 2007

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:53 am

Aiynzahev wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
Aiynzahev wrote:
billcarroll wrote:
Aiynzahev wrote:I hear you. I think the two I liked most from Ableton were Grain Delay and Beat repeat. Just need to find substitutes that don't break the bank.
I'd assume Effectrix or Stutter Edit would replace Beat repeat?

Have you found anything that replaces Live's Grain Delay?
I think Absynth FX might be able to replace Grain delay, but it loses the simplicity.

Effectix could likely replace Beat repeat. But I don't think it has a probability or variation setting. It's also more complicated again, but just a little. It's also another $100 or so.
I hadn't thought of using Absynth FX. Thanks. :)
Tons of presets on the FX version too. Haven't even begun to make my own yet.
.

You can replace beat repeat with replicant http://www.audiodamage.com/ef ... ?pid=AD013by Audio Damage, only 50 bucks and way more functional.

juansep
KVRist
76 posts since 17 Dec, 2010

Re: Bitwig vs Ableton and other DAWs. User thoughts please!

Post Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:44 pm

I downloaded the 1.1 demo today, and its really a step forward since I've last tried it (earliest versions). Firstly, hats off to Volker, Dom and all the guys actively participating in the forums, it shows a lot.

I really liked the ability to deactivate devices now (to save CPU). That said, I really, really wish you guys find a way to decrease CPU usage, did the same Ableton test today and found I can still load up more tracks and plugins until they start to break down.

Anyways, Ableton has already made clear they actually don't give a damn about their software and they actually recognized publicly that they know about the PDC issues in the software and how Live doesn't handle large amounts of tracks nicely (the whole application slows down, becomes glitchy, unusable). It seems they target their software to guys who make simple music with all the bundled internal instruments and effects.

I hope Bitwig can achieve that crossover between modularity, ease of use, and heavy duty work at some point, and seeing how the guys are working on it these last days gives me hope.

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