novation impulse modwheel on channel 3 rather than channel 1

[gravy]

I just purchased a novation impulse 25 so I can play with pitch bend, modwheels, aftertouch, and all the other things my full size midi keyboard doesn't manage. I also really liked the idea of having transport controls and these do work great.

So I have #1: a bit of a blocking issue, #2: perhaps someone has a comment to make and #3: a niggle.

#2, #3 I can keep doing more research but it doesn't hurt to ask right? #1 I could really use some help on.

#1. The quest to get the mod wheel working.

I suspect this could be an easy one to solve so after about half an hour googling and searching the forum I thought I would just ask...

I am running linux so there is no chance of running the novation automap software which seems to be a common solution suggested to others having these problems.

According to Gmidimap the mod wheel data is coming in on Midi Channel 3 as CC1. Notes and Pitch bend come in on Channel 1 and controls seem to come in on Channel 2.

Mod wheel doesn't trigger the MWo-> and neither can I map the wheel to any parameters via controller assignment. The other controls on the Impulse seem to map ok.

So how would I get a BWS to see this Channel 3 data? Should I find a plugin to do it?

#2. I am also having some trouble understanding the bws implementation of the pitch bend wheel but I'll keep reading up on this one. On a slightly related note, I am noticing is that pretty much all vst midi note fx seem to block the pitch bend wheel from working. The native BWS note filters don't cause this problem.

#3. All the BWS drum machine presets seem to map drums to the grid of 16 pads well below the yellow lights that the impulse drum pads make flash. I can manually add drums/intstrument samples one by one to the pads triggered by the impulse but it would be nice to be able to use the built in kits. I can't seem to drag drums up or even copy paste them. I can cut and copy but not paste into a slot.

[gravy]

I see my first problem, with the mod wheel, was discussed once before.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... e#p5808531

Nobody seemed to notice the data was going through to Midi Channel 3 in that thread so I wonder if there is still a chance for me to workaround until Novation get around to fixing this.

[ThomasHelzle]

That indeed is a good hint. Pretty weird to send such standard controllers through special channels actually - this belongs in channel 1.
Is there an editor for the impulse where you can change the midi channel for the Modwheel or can you edit it in the keyboard itself?
But it would be trivial to change the script to also listen to channel 3 (or all channels) it all fails.
It never occurred to anybody on the thread you linked that the keyboard would send the Modwheel on channel 3 - would have made things a lot easier...

Pitch-bend should work as expected with VSTs and is translated into per-Note-Pitch for factory devices. This should work automatically in theory, but in practice it's a good idea to keep an eye on the inspector for the track and the "Convert Pitch-bend" checkbox. This needs to be on for factory devices and off for plugins and external instruments. This setting currently prevents using both in the same track with Pitch-bend which is currently being looked into.

Can you transpose the drum pads in the impulse? That would be much easier than changing all the presets. Alternatively you can put a note pitch shifter in front of the drum machine so all incoming notes are transposed.
You should be able to simply drag and drop the slots of a drum machine around as you like.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Tom

[gravy]

Thanks for the response Tom

I can't work out if it is possible to program the Impulse in this way, let alone how to. I am guessing it isn't because this would normally be handled in their Automap backend application (which is Mac and Windows only of course).

The documentation seems lacking but perhaps the Automap manual needs to be read as well. It would seem redundant if I can't run that software.

Incidentally I did just plug the machine into Windows 7 to get a firmware update for the Impulse. It worked but didn't make any difference to the problems reported once I plugged back into BWS on linux.

A note pitch shifter for the drum pad is a great idea - thanks for that one.

I should also note in this thread, I think, that After touch is not working. Gmidimonitor reports 'Channel Pressure' (without a channel number) when I activate further pressure on the keys (and drum pad) after the initial strike.

My uneducated guess is that the Controller script itself is missing the aftertouch/channel pressure implementation. I assume that normally bitwig would send Channel Pressure through to the AT o-> thingy if it was getting the data from the Control Script. Does that sound right or does BWS only handle Polyphonic Aftertouch?

As for the original issue with the mod wheel, I've had a look through the script and can't see what I need to look at to get Channel 3 midi data reported. I'll keep looking.

I am guessing a reason the Mod wheel is coming in on Channel 3 is that they report it as a feature that the Mod wheel is programmable to other parameters. So I suppose normally Automap would handle putting the data through to Channel 1 in cases where this programming was not required.

Thanks again.

[gravy]

My problem solving looks a bit negative so I just want to add something a bit more positive.

The integration for this cheap device is really good and because a lot of the functionality is built into the hardware rather than the software most of it works as per the markings on the keys (eg turning on clip launch, arpeggiator, roll, transpose) and isn't too dependent on the Control Script it seems.

I use it in Linux and mostly it is working exactly as advertised.

Now to go back to griping

My final gripe I hope.

I can't find a way to sync the tempo of the Arpeggiator and Roll device to BWS unless I do it manually and separately between the device and BWS.

The setup menu on the Impulse says it can accept clock source from Auto, Internal, Midi and USB. I assume this is designed to use the Midi pulse as the tempo of the Roll and Arpeggiate. I can't think what else it could be for.

At this stage this is not working via USB when I set up the Generic Control Script, 'Midi Clock Transmitter' and link it to 'Impulse Midi 1'. But perhaps I can't have two separate control scripts both addressing 'Impulse Midi 1'. If that's the case it would be great to get the clock sending built into the Impulse script.

There is something else I can try as a workaround - which is to send a clock sync pulse out of BWS via my Emu Midi interface, and into the Midi-DIN on the Impulse. First I have to find an old fashioned midi patch lead.

[ThomasHelzle]

I will try to fix the script for you, including midi beat clock, mod wheel and aftertouch.
I don't have an impulse here so you would have to test it from your side.

You would probably need to set the impulse to external sync (Midi or USB, depending on your connection). But if it needs Midi Time Code you're out of luck, that isn't sent by Bitwig yet.
The Midi Clock Transmitter should work as well.

How many connections does the impulse show in the dropdown? Only Impulse Midi 1 or more of them?

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

From this documentation I take it that you can actually set the midi channel for each control and it looks very simple.
See page 39 ff. :
http://d19ulaff0trnck.cloudfront.net/si ... -guide.pdf
That should solve the ModWheel problem right away, just set it to channel 1.

Channel Aftertouch should already work from what I see in the script.

But I found more problems there, especially with how the pads are sending their midi. Are you able to record the pads? They use a note preview function instead of a proper note input.

I think I will go grab the Impulse 25 from the office in the next days and do an overhaul of the whole script.

Cheers,

Tom

[gravy]

This is great news and I look forward to testing and helping where I can.

I had a good look at the manual and while I can change the midi channel for the whole keyboard this just prevents the keyboard functioning at all with BWS. I can't find where you could change just the midi channel for the mod wheel.

Page 39 unfortunately is not accurate. The intention is that you can press 'Controls' and then move an encoder wheel or fader or mod and get to the settings for that control. Unfortunately this does not work for the Mod wheel but it does work for the faders and encoders.

The other thing about Channel aftertouch I don't know. I couldn't see references in the script and I tried to copy across some Channel aftertouch references from 'Tom's Generic' but they broke the script. I really don't understand the scripting yet so that is no surprise. Suffice to say I can't get any channel aftertouch responses although midi pressure messages are being sent (but with no channel number attached - I wonder if that is a problem).

Some other detailed notes:
1. html manual should tell you which Factory Template you need to be on. I generally assume '15- 20 Blank' but I have messed with some of the others. Some of them seem to work others not. At the very least it could say 'Don't use x or y template'. If you want me to do some testing to see what works and what doesn't I could. It's a shame Novation can't put a 'Bitwig' template in their to ease confusion.

2. Track up and down (Shift Octave up and down) doesn't shift the Clip Launcher Pads which means you're always restricted to Clip Launching on the first two tracks, even if you've used this Track Down and your Selected Track is further down. In this case the Fader and all the device knobs work on the selected track but the Clips are still launching and showing from Track 1 and 2 only.

3. In Global Mode (That is Midi is selected on the button also labelled Page Down), it makes no difference is Mixer or Midi is selected on the far left for this issue...
Pressing Shift will light up all the buttons with colour pots on the current device indicating the use of the device knobs to modify those parameters. However the knobs don't work. The same lighting up with colour happens if you press Plugin
Mode (button also labelled 'Page Up')

Once I've triggered bug 4 below I get a different bug. In Global Mode the Faders and Pots light up as per Mixer Mode but don't function, whether or not Mixer or Midi is selected on the left. So these modes are getting confused somehow.

4. Mixer Mode gets confused. You can be in mixer page (Page Up and Page Down Button both lit), but Midi mode on the left button below the main fader. The pan buttons on each track will light up if you press shift but the control knobs will not work them. Then if you go into mixer mode using lighting up the button below the main fader the knows will work (as faders on each tracked and shifted as panning). Now turn the Mixer Mode light off below the main fader and the knobs will work as indicated originally.

And once again this bug does not trigger once you trigger Bug 3.

3 and 4 are very confusing bug reports. You could sum them up by saying the Mixer/Midi selector below the main fader and the Global/Device/Mixer Mode Selection (on the buttons also marked Page Up and Page Down) confuse each other and BWS.

Anyway I hope there is some useful info in that. Let me know how I can help otherwise.

all the best
Graham

[ThomasHelzle]

Whew - okay, I'll have to try the real thing now to follow your feedback but you make good points.
Thanks a lot, I'll look into it.

Hm - that's bad about the docs. It suggested to me clearly that the mod wheel is assignable and it says so in the beginning as well. Weird. But that would actually be a question for Akai Support.

As for Aftertouch: that always has a channel attached as well - maybe it's a flaw in your midi monitor?

The things you copied from my scripts are about Polyphonic Aftertouch which the impulse doesn't have and yeah, you need to know what you do to make scripts work

I agree with the Factory Template remark, although the script contains a lot of Sysex that may set the keyboard to a defined state automatically on load.
I didn't write the script and the author no longer works at Bitwig so I have to see what's what.
Maybe it would be better to rely on a certain factory preset instead to make the script easier to read and work with.

Cheers,

Tom

[gravy]

The plot thickens Tom. This may not be a manufacturer issue perhaps...

I managed to get into the Mod wheel settings and can change the channel to 1 as showing on GMidimonitor and the Impulse LCD screen. I save the template. Turn the keyboard on and off and verify the setting is sticking.

How did I do this? By accessing the control very fast while the keyboard is still powering up.

Then I discovered the issue is connectivity to bitwig.

As soon as I plug the keyboard into active Bitwig, the Mod channel reverts to 3, and setting the Mod channel becomes a blocked function. I can then shut down bitwig and setting mod is still blocked until I power cycle the keyboard.

So I tried power cycling the keyboard and not having bitwig running. I can access and modify the mod settings. But then as soon as I start bitwig the mod channel gets reset to 3 and won't budge.

BTW I also tried getting the Midi Clock Transmitter (and indeed any of the other missing functionality) function my Midi DIN rather than USB. This made no difference to anything whether the Midi DIN Was run seperately or concurrently with the Bitwig Generic Midi Clock Transmitter.

all the best
Graham

[gravy]

In reply to your previous questions
'How many connections does Impulse show in the dropdown?'

All of them: Impulse 1, my Emu Midi interface, and my Alias 8.

As for recording of drum pads I have no problem there at all either with an instrument or a drum container, whether clip or arranger. all combos seem to work.

Let me know any other things you want me to try and thanks so much for the help.

all the best
Graham

[ThomasHelzle]

Yeah, that is what I expected: the script is setting the keyboard to a specific mode via Sysex, which in one way is fine since it theoretically takes care of setting up the controller to how it should be without the user having to load a specific setup, but it seems not to work correctly in this case.

As for the number of connections: Many controllers show 2 or even 3 midi inputs and/or outputs and sometimes send keys through one and controller stuff through another, that's why I wondered it maybe something is going to one of the others (if there were any).

Interesting about the drum pads. Thanks for checking!

I don't understand why the Midi Clock doesn't work, but could imagine it's one more thing done by the automatic preset.

Hm - looks like quite some work ahead

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

Ok, I have the impulse 25 here now.

- Did Autodetection work for you? The script had the wrong port name for Windows where it's called "Novation Impulse". I added that right away.

- I set it to the first "Basic Midi" preset before I launched Bitwig in case that makes a difference.

- Aftertouch works just fine here. Try loading a Polysynth on a track, load the first preset "Acido", click the AT modifier, drag the Filter Freq knob up. Play the keys with some pressure, the value should move and the filter should open.

- On this unit, the Mod-Wheel also works just fine.

(I'm trying on Windows 8 now, can test Linux Mint later if that makes a difference).

- When I press "Controls" I can set the Mod Wheel channel etc. just fine, none of the problems you describe occur.

- The Drum Pads are perfectly aligned to the octave of the Bitwig presets.

- Midi Beat Clock works and keeps the Arpeggiator in sync.

But I find a lot of other problems with things that seem to work for you. I can't select Pages and can't launch clips etc.
Something is wrong here...

I'll check Linux now.

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

Ok, checked on Linux: Modwheel works, I can change it's channel, I get no Aftertouch, I'm unable to switch pages or launch clips, pretty much everything seems broken...
I slowly come to the conclusion that this whole script seems to be very funky and acting unpredictable.

I thought I could do some quick fixes for you but my impression is, that something basic is broken and especially in an inconsistent way.

That needs a bit more analysing so give me a bit of time please

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

Allright, made some first progress. I cleaned the script up a bit, gave it an indication for the page you select and fixed a lot of little niggles. I'm using the first basic Midi preset and it seems everything works for me (even on Linux), but Aftertouch only works on Windows. I'll have to see if that is actually a Bitwig bug on Linux or what that is about.
Find this first improved version here:
https://github.com/bitwig/novation-impu ... provements
Backup the factory script and put this one in there instead.

Let me know if you see any improvements. Make sure to reset the impulse first so that it doesn't have old settings but the clean basic Midi settings.

Cheers,

Tom

P.S. I forgot to mention that now there are two inputs, Impulse Keyboard and Impulse Pads so you can address two tracks at once. I still wonder where to put a Pad-Transpose - all Knobs seem taken already...