"Mirror" Clips

Official support for: bitwig.com
Ayoto
KVRer
8 posts since 12 Apr, 2015

Post Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:45 pm

I'd like to be able to create movable "mirror" clips. Clips we could create that would only be resizable mirrors of another clip.

For instance, I automate a clip containing an audio file just how I want it, then make many mirror files of it to place at different points in the arrangement, with the goal of them being exactly the same every time.

If I know I won't be changing the sound, I'd simply duplicate. But what if I want to continuously try changes to it? I'd have to edit one until I like it, then delete my previous duplicates and re-copy some more from my source clip, which can take a lot of time, especially if I want to make a lot of copies and place them at inconsistent intervals. If I had mirror clips, every mirrored copy of my source clip would change along with the source.

It's exactly like what happens when we loop drag clips, except the copies don't have to be connected to the original, and each one can be trimmed if desired.

I've emailed this to Bitwig Support already but I know they're pretty busy and may not even see the request so I thought I'd tell the community about it. If you guys like it, we can ask together.

Thoughts?

phonophora
KVRer
3 posts since 12 Dec, 2013 from United Kingdom

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:29 pm

I think this would be very powerful in Bitwig especially now with the meta clips....

digitalfix
KVRist
255 posts since 5 Sep, 2015

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:00 pm

What's called Alias clips in Logic .. Yes, this would be useful.

Ayoto
KVRer
8 posts since 12 Apr, 2015

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:10 am

digitalfix wrote:What's called Alias clips in Logic
I thought I might've seen them somewhere before, that's it!

Jamesoow
KVRist
30 posts since 26 Jul, 2007

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:43 am

I've had this feature in Studio One and frankly .. I never really used it. I can see how it can be handy, but for me personally I never bothered with it. So I don't miss the feature in Bitwig either.

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drakmaniso
KVRist
139 posts since 27 Jul, 2015

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:52 am

Yes, I was surprised to find out that Bitwig didn't have alias/ghost/linked clips. Most sequencers I've used had this, including some old hardware (e.g. Yamaha Rm1x).

This would be especially useful when using the clip launcher and the arranger at the same time: draft your clips on one side, then put linked copies on the other. Without linked clips, you need either to remember which side contains the most recent version, or discipline yourself to make changes only in one side.

philipviana
KVRist
33 posts since 12 Apr, 2015

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:52 am

+1!

FL Studio has banked patterns - you edit pattern 1, and every instance of pattern 1 in the arrangement updates. If you want variations of pattern 1, you just copy it to pattern 2, and so forth.

I was used to this method of working for years before I tried ableton and was frustrated that various clips that were made from the same source were disassociated from one another.

This would be a great feature for bitwig to have down the line (or soon).
drakmaniso wrote:This would be especially useful when using the clip launcher and the arranger at the same time: draft your clips on one side, then put linked copies on the other. Without linked clips, you need either to remember which side contains the most recent version, or discipline yourself to make changes only in one side.
Well stated.

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shadiradio
KVRist
444 posts since 28 Mar, 2014 from Los Angeles, CA

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:47 pm

I've sent in a feature request in the past asking for this (ghost/linked clips). Email them your request too, the more requests for a certain feature, the higher up it moves on their list. :)

yoshi303
Banned
576 posts since 3 Jul, 2010

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:49 pm

shadiradio wrote:I've sent in a feature request in the past asking for this (ghost/linked clips). Email them your request too, the more requests for a certain feature, the higher up it moves on their list. :)
like i say if it's "RELEVANTS".....................

(they dont care about me) :D
night life...
sry but i can't talk alone.

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billcarroll
KVRAF
1841 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:21 pm

Ghost MIDI clips in Studio One work this way, and you can even create ghost audio clips with audio inside.

Another nice feature in Studio One is being able to hold the ALT (option) key + drag sample to replace all same samples on a single track, or CTRL + ALT + drag to replace all same samples on all tracks.

I would love to see this functionality in Bitwig.

tooneba
KVRian
1045 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:55 pm

only Live and Bitwig don't have alias....

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antic604
KVRAF
1878 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:47 am

tooneba wrote:only Live and Bitwig don't have alias....
It's ironic for the two DAWs focused on electronic, 'repetitive' music :)

What makes it worse IMO is they boast about how clips and views are independent. Sure, it's nice but let me have a choice - sometimes I'd love to have them dependent.
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase 10 @ Surface Pro 4
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Hez
KVRian
571 posts since 10 Dec, 2013

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:08 am

billcarroll wrote:Ghost MIDI clips in Studio One work this way, and you can even create ghost audio clips with audio inside.

Another nice feature in Studio One is being able to hold the ALT (option) key + drag sample to replace all same samples on a single track, or CTRL + ALT + drag to replace all same samples on all tracks.

I would love to see this functionality in Bitwig.
Ah yes I'd love a more accessible sample replace function. You can do it currently by going to the project panel, then 'Files', then replacing in there, but it replaces all instances of that sample across all tracks, and is a little irritating to get to. It can lead to some really funky/weird results when you've done a lot of microediting at the audio event level. It's also really important when you've bounced a long piece of audio, done a lot of editing to it (cleaning up gains, fades, splitting, chopping etc.), then realised you want to go back and rebounce the source synth. As long as you rebounce the exact same length (and haven't changed tempo etc.), you can replace the underlying audio and keep all the edits intact.

Two enhancements to this would make it a much more powerful feature IMO:
a.) give quicker access to it in a right click menu and
b.) give multiple options: Replace all instances of source audio in current clip, replace all instances of source audio on current track, replace all instances of source audio in project

Does Logic have 'audio containers/clips' and actual 'audio data/events' in the way that Bitwig does? I can see the implementation having to be a little different to the Logic method you described if not.

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pboy
KVRist
345 posts since 28 Apr, 2003 from Sweden

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:42 am

Hez wrote: Two enhancements to this would make it a much more powerful feature IMO:
a.) give quicker access to it in a right click menu and
b.) give multiple options: Replace all instances of source audio in current clip, replace all instances of source audio on current track, replace all instances of source audio in project
I agree! Ghost/Alias/Linked clips would be helpful in BWS.

Currently, in BWS, I'm using the MIDI Note Receiver on the track to "mirror" MIDI from clips on a different track. I can then run the MIDI data, on the receiving/new track, through a Note Transposer, Arpeggiator or whatever to drive a new instrument. It's not the same as having Aliases (like in Logic) but good enough and in some areas actually a lot more powerful. But for audio this trick can of course not be used.
Does Logic have 'audio containers/clips' and actual 'audio data/events' in the way that Bitwig does? I can see the implementation having to be a little different to the Logic method you described if not.
No, you cannot rearrange playback of audio inside the Audio Regions of Logic's.
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mclstr
KVRist
113 posts since 13 Dec, 2016 from Tucson, AZ, USA

Re: "Mirror" Clips

Post Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:44 am

I can see having it as an option, but one of the reasons that I like Bitwig is that I can copy sections/clips around without having to worry about any changes being made to a clip being mirrored in all copies.

The default in a few previous DAWs that I've used is to have copies mirrored by default and I find immensely annoying. I can see where it can be good when you choose it, but don't make it the default.

Nothing worse than spending a good chunk of time tweaking a copy to only find out that I just buggered the original clip and it's copies.

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