MIDI Notes not sustaining beyond end of clips

[pdxindy]

I more often trigger a clip change at the end of the clip... and I might change to a clip that would not sound good with a sustaining note from the previous clip... or it might.

Then it's very simple: do what the current Bitwig behavior force you to do, cut all the notes at the end of your clips. Obviously this can be done automatically, a simple checkbox in the settings would take care of that. That would make no difference for you.

The thing is, the feature discussed here only add new possibilities, and doesn't remove anything. Those used to the current behavior would still have it work exactly the same.

The thing is, it doesn't add any new possibilities...

Why spend development hours adding a feature that has workflow issues and which adds no new functionality? (Just because a few people are asking for it is not a good reason)

I dislike the "just add an option" argument. All the options in Reaper are exactly where I want Bitwig NOT to go. I would much rather Bitwig have a clear direction/vision and stick to it. Not everyone will always get what they want, including me sometimes, but that is far better than everyone getting what they want.

[pdxindy]

There are a couple of issues need dealt with, but they are manageable. Actually, in a clip launching scenario you could use one of the issues (multiple notes of the same channel/pitch being triggered before the previous note-off) to your advantage. If notes were legato they could just continue in to the new clip, rather than being retriggered.

In Bitwig as is, you can make legato loops or legato as one clip transitions to the next (no re-trigger). It already works great.

And it is easy to make sustaining loops that have no break or 'blockiness'

I just made this quick example of sustaining notes looping in the clip launcher. There are always sustaining, overlapping notes. 1 instance of Hive. There is nothing you cannot currently do... so no need for a solution to a non-existant problem...

http://draigathar.org/sounds/sustained-notes2.mp3

[stamp]

Why spend development hours adding a feature that has workflow issues and which adds no new functionality? (Just because a few people are asking for it is not a good reason)

I dislike the "just add an option" argument. All the options in Reaper are exactly where I want Bitwig NOT to go. I would much rather Bitwig have a clear direction/vision and stick to it. Not everyone will always get what they want, including me sometimes, but that is far better than everyone getting what they want.

I personally don't care about sustaining notes but what you're saying is non-sense. You are talking about waste of development hours but the loss of (paying) customers will only reduce the amount of financial resources that cuold lead to new and exiting features. I prefer having lots of options allowing different workflows thus increasing the userbase thus...
Once you have set your daw the way you want it to work you can forget about all those options.
I agree with reaper having to much options but I also think that bitwig as is is really limiting at the moment.

Cheers

[pdxindy]

I agree with reaper having to much options but I also think that bitwig as is is really limiting at the moment.

Cheers

Bitwig may or may not be limiting as is (depends on the individual user). One persons limiting is another persons easy to use.

But relating to sustaining notes and clips, there is nothing that cannot be done as is... so no limitation there.

[Coockie1176ln]

Sustained note wont be possible if adding note start because it will retrigger then. Its allways apple or oranges. Cant please all. There will allways be something that someone else needs while other want other functions. They could have done sustained notes different like dragging clip with a button to make longer makes notes longer as well. But in clip launcher thats not possible. Guess thats why they put in looped note or sustained note for functionallity to loop a clip. Everybody cant be pleased and bitwig probably will allways choose to make consider of cliplauncher since that is a major part of bitwig. Bitwig is best of both worlds, arranger +clip launcher

[Coockie1176ln]

Btw anyway feature request if you want. Its up to bitwig to decide in the end whats best for the daw and what works

[Groundhog #31684]

There are a couple of issues need dealt with, but they are manageable. Actually, in a clip launching scenario you could use one of the issues (multiple notes of the same channel/pitch being triggered before the previous note-off) to your advantage. If notes were legato they could just continue in to the new clip, rather than being retriggered.

In Bitwig as is, you can make legato loops or legato as one clip transitions to the next (no re-trigger). It already works great.

And it is easy to make sustaining loops that have no break or 'blockiness'

I just made this quick example of sustaining notes looping in the clip launcher. There are always sustaining, overlapping notes. 1 instance of Hive. There is nothing you cannot currently do... so no need for a solution to a non-existant problem...

http://draigathar.org/sounds/sustained-notes2.mp3

That's not what I said though.... this is possible with a single clip, but not going from one to another. There is a tiny bit of legato overlap when trimming notes back in clips but there is still a retrigger. Please take a step back and realise that you are suggesting messing around with loop points and multiple tracks per wanted track to achieve the results a simple feature request that you won't use anyway would achieve.

On the subject of Reaper, although it does not play notes beyond the clip boundary, it allows you to place MIDI (or audio/whatever) clips overlapping each other on the same track, which accomplishes much of the same goal in a linear workflow when not tied to arranging in rigid blocks.

[Groundhog #31684]

Sustained note wont be possible if adding note start because it will retrigger then. Its allways apple or oranges.

I disagree... the GUI notes will do whatever the programmer makes them to do. In the example you mention, I've said before that there is a choice between sustain and retrigger. I can be apples and oranges.

[Coockie1176ln]

Sustained note wont be possible if adding note start because it will retrigger then. Its allways apple or oranges.

I disagree... the GUI notes will do whatever the programmer makes them to do. In the example you mention, I've said before that there is a choice between sustain and retrigger. I can be apples and oranges.

Yes you can make a computer to just what you want and get into if or for cases etc that puts note retrigg off if end and start is in loop etc. But it also makes it less user friendly becuase it doesnt become so straight forward. Smart functions can really be tricky if it doesnt take consider of the user who gona use it. Its better have a option in preferences. But like you said and i said apples or oranges. Some like having both, some like having one and not the other. Just feature request it and let bitwig who actually have better understanding than us of their program and the software designt to see if its a smart move or note. I like how bitwig has now, but i would have better use for the other. makes it easier looping tontent that starts end of a clip and then comes at start. Just feature request lets see what bitwig themselves say.

[pdxindy]

That's not what I said though.... this is possible with a single clip, but not going from one to another. There is a tiny bit of legato overlap when trimming notes back in clips but there is still a retrigger. Please take a step back and realise that you are suggesting messing around with loop points and multiple tracks per wanted track to achieve the results a simple feature request that you won't use anyway would achieve.

It is possible going from one to another. If you extend a note past the clip end, it will play legato (no re-trigger) with whatever clip follows as long as the following clip has a note at the start. Of course you need a synth preset set to legato, then it just works.

[Groundhog #31684]

Hmmm, I was wrong about the tiny overlap when a note extends beyond a clip boundary, I must have had a glide set to no retrigger earlier when I thought there was an overlap with notes of different values.

Here, extending a note beyond the clip boundary does nothing at the moment. I've checked the sample position of events (using a VST midi logger) and the note-off and note-on are sent at the same position (as we would expect), but also whether or not a note has extended beyond the clip boundary.

I don't know why you think that something changes in this situation, maybe it's with Bitwig instruments (I'm using VST2)?

In any case, relying on every synth and sampler supporting some kind of non-overlapping legato feature is flogging a dead horse for a feature you wouldn't use.

In general, I'd prefer to see the grid more as an indicator than a rigid structure. Perhaps a Sophisticat Mode could be implemented to avoid confusing people. But what is certain is that the grid could be used more musically (in any host that uses grids, not just Bitwig) and isn't something that inherently limits flexibility.

[pdxindy]

Hmmm, I was wrong about the tiny overlap when a note extends beyond a clip boundary, I must have had a glide set to no retrigger earlier when I thought there was an overlap with notes of different values.

Here, extending a note beyond the clip boundary does nothing at the moment. I've checked the sample position of events (using a VST midi logger) and the note-off and note-on are sent at the same position (as we would expect), but also whether or not a note has extended beyond the clip boundary.

I don't know why you think that something changes in this situation, maybe it's with Bitwig instruments (I'm using VST2)?

If you end the note on the grid the same as the clip end, it does not play legato across clips. If you drag the note past the clip end, then it does play legato.

I am using u-he Hive with a standard mono-legato preset (like every synth has).

[Groundhog #31684]

Nope, dragging the note past the clip end does nothing to the note-off position here. Same result... no overlap, necessary for glide/legato synth modes like you find in every synth in a monophonic mode. As I say, I checked the sample position of the note-offs and they are the same whether the note extends or not. Also checked with Massive and Sylenth1 in case numbers suddenly stopped working in the universe.

Even if it did work with all synths, you are saying that I would need to not use the samplers I use and use 10x the number of tracks (for polyphony). Then it would "just work". No thanks.

This sideshow competely ignores the main issue which is that we need to use multiple tracks for something that should only need one and that the sustaining notes we are talking about (often) would only extend less than a beat into the next clip. The extension option would be added gravy.

[pdxindy]

Nope, dragging the note past the clip end does nothing to the note-off position here. Same result... no overlap, necessary for glide/legato synth modes like you find in every synth in a monophonic mode. As I say, I checked the sample position of the note-offs and they are the same whether the note extends or not. Also checked with Massive and Sylenth1 in case numbers suddenly stopped working in the universe.

Even if it did work with all synths, you are saying that I would need to not use the samplers I use and use 10x the number of tracks (for polyphony). Then it would "just work". No thanks.

This sideshow competely ignores the main issue which is that we need to use multiple tracks for something that should only need one and that the sustaining notes we are talking about (often) would only extend less than a beat into the next clip. The extension option would be added gravy.

You have no idea what I am talking about... 1 track, 2 clips, you can play legato from one clip to the next with any instrument, synth or sampler that supports mono legato (basically everything).

[Groundhog #31684]

Answer this question... it's a yes/no answer...

Does extending a note beyond the clip edge in Bitwig change the note-off position compared to if the note stops at the clip edge?