Bitwig vs. Ableton

Official support for: bitwig.com
codec17
KVRAF
1514 posts since 14 Feb, 2010

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:28 am

pdxindy wrote: Bounce in Place
Yeah well... I dont trust that feature ,.. transients are gone or totally different ,just some out of sync (when i place/cut or stretch them tight on the beat i expect that BW also render it on the beat.....
Everytime i use this feature i need to check and double check if it went well.... :cry:

simmo75
KVRian
1159 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:42 am

Really not happy with the Bitwig update costs.
I bought it last year and now they want me to pay $169 per year to keep it up to date.
That stinks!
I love the DAW but I’m not paying that.

SLiC
KVRAF
3224 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:36 am

simmo75 wrote:Really not happy with the Bitwig update costs.
I bought it last year and now they want me to pay $169 per year to keep it up to date.
That stinks!
I love the DAW but I’m not paying that.
Keeping up to date with Cubase is just as expensive! Dome DAWs seem cheaper, but that because they hardly ever update! If you like what you have just don’t update....at some point all of the cumulative updates will seem like very good value for 169 ;-)
i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, Syst1m, 500hp Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, Heat, Digitone, MPC Live, OP-Z, Mother+DFAM, Drums, Guitars, Basses and Amps

kdejaeger
KVRist
65 posts since 29 Jan, 2018

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:23 am

On my laptop Ableton 10 seems snappier than Bitwig (2.2.3). For instance solo-ing a track seems more immediate in Ableton 10. First impressions though, I'm not a long time user of any yet.

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antic604
KVRAF
1878 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:12 am

pdxindy wrote:
antic604 wrote:(some things not mentioned yet, I think)

Advantages of Live 10 Suite vs. Bitwig 2.3:

- more comprehensive range of instruments (subtractive, FM, wavetable, physical modelling),
For sure the Instruments in Live 10 are more in number and variety. However, the Bitwig Instruments are fundamentally more flexible because they are part of a powerful system. Ableton Operator is a useful synth, but modulation is fairly limited. You cannot just add an envelope and control any parameter.
You can with Suite - you have LFO, Envelope, Env. Follower, Shaper out of the box.

Yeah, I know Suite is much more expensive than Bitwig, but there's no use getting Standard if you're getting Live IMO. For me, other versions might not even exist. Live = Suite.
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase 10 @ Surface Pro 4
https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Silweri
KVRist
63 posts since 29 May, 2017

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:16 pm

I have Bitwig and I have Ableton Live Suite. Had 9 and now 10.

Both have strenghts, but I get more inspired in Bitwig. Even though there are many limitations compared to Ableton Live, there are many things that are so much better thought on Bitwig.

I wish there will be upgrade for Bitwigs Sampler, because It’s currently so limited... X-cross and strech modes to sampler and I’m happy.

So best things for both daws:

Ableton:
-sampler and simpler are amazing. So easy, intuitive and full of options to use
-Excellent effects for audio. Suite has great effects by Max devices also.
-Huge library of sounds included. Great instrument sounds (violins, sellos, ect.)
-Audio to midi. Harmony to midi most importantly.

Bitwig:
-Really inspiring interface that is easy to tweak to liking and excellent ways to edit audio and midi
-Modulation. Of god the modulation. Made to be so easy and in your face.
-Overall editing of tracks, audio, midi is so easy and intuitive.
-Presets. You can for example add Xfer Serums presets folder to sound location and Bitwig shows/finds every Serum preset on it’s own browser! Makes everything faster and creative.
-Importing midi tracks/stacks. Bitwig loads up simple polysynth preset on all tracks that makes it easier to start working on imported tracks. On Live all tracks are silent before you add some synth on them (not a biggie, but helping feature)
-Routing for audio and midi is AMAZING. I just love it! It works just the way I would imagine to make it work if I would ever create DAW.
-Browsers. Both on the right side of the screen and the pop-up browser. Both are excellent! The way the browser shows everything on the lower folders without going in to folder is really a big thing. The search works perfectly

And for the bad:

Ableton:
You can basicly just mirror every Bitwig good thing here that I wrote above...

Bitwig:
-Sampler! Sampler! Sampler! This really needs upgrade...
-Could come with wider library of sounds, or more frequent updates of included sound content to compensate the yearly upgrade cost... I mean there really isn’t even good sampled piano instrument included or any orchestral stuff... I often like to use some violins and piano on my tracks.
-Stability issues. I do crash the sound engine few times a day and seldom the whole Bitwig. This with both my windows 10 computer and Macbook Pro. Been reporting these crashes nearly year now, but still excisting...
Last edited by Silweri on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

zfigz
KVRist
110 posts since 26 Jan, 2006

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:21 pm

kdejaeger wrote:On my laptop Ableton 10 seems snappier than Bitwig (2.2.3). For instance solo-ing a track seems more immediate in Ableton 10. First impressions though, I'm not a long time user of any yet.
I'm using High Sierra and I feel like Live 9 is snappier, at least in terms of booting.

odix
KVRist
86 posts since 1 Nov, 2014

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Your ozone problem is the plugin so its pointless. We need mirror clips in Bitwig. That woukd truly set it apart.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
14746 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:35 pm

antic604 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:
antic604 wrote:(some things not mentioned yet, I think)

Advantages of Live 10 Suite vs. Bitwig 2.3:

- more comprehensive range of instruments (subtractive, FM, wavetable, physical modelling),
For sure the Instruments in Live 10 are more in number and variety. However, the Bitwig Instruments are fundamentally more flexible because they are part of a powerful system. Ableton Operator is a useful synth, but modulation is fairly limited. You cannot just add an envelope and control any parameter.
You can with Suite - you have LFO, Envelope, Env. Follower, Shaper out of the box.
Yeah, those devices are there... but in Live they are only monophonic (not so useful). In Bitwig the modulators can be monophonic or polyphonic (per voice)! That is a huge difference!!

That is what I mean about being part of a more developed system at the DAW level. In Bitwig, adding 1, 2, or 10 Envelope modulators, they function the same as if they are part of the synth itself. Not some external plugin like in Live. Now with 2.3, the voice stacking is also part of the DAW system, and so every instrument can benefit from it.

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antic604
KVRAF
1878 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:53 pm

pdxindy wrote:Yeah, those devices are there... but in Live they are only monophonic (not so useful). In Bitwig the modulators can be monophonic or polyphonic (per voice)! That is a huge difference!!
Maybe because I do simple music I never needed polyphonic modulators, but indeed it's great to have such an option.
pdxindy wrote:That is what I mean about being part of a more developed system at the DAW level. In Bitwig, adding 1, 2, or 10 Envelope modulators, they function the same as if they are part of the synth itself. Not some external plugin like in Live. Now with 2.3, the voice stacking is also part of the DAW system, and so every instrument can benefit from it.
Oh, I agree! I never disputed that. Just that your example suggested you can't modulate Operator's parameters with an LFO or Envelope, which is not correct.

Having dedicated modulators system is such a straightforward, immediate, fun and inviting solution! Sure I can replicate most (all?) stuff it does in Live, but it's much more tedious somehow. Like you said - M4L still, even in Live 10, feels external even if for the fact that you can't save the whole thing as an Operator or Analog patch. Also the fact that the M4L modulators stack up in your devices chain and take space is annoying, whereas in Bitwig you can hide them completely and even unfolded they take much less space. I actually think doing modulators - instead of opening the modular back-end outright - was a genius move on Bitwig's behalf as a lot of people (myself included, probably) would be immediately overwhelmed by the complexity, whereas with modulators they're easing us in into this more complex paradigm. Paradoxically, we probably have like 70-80% of what the full-modular environment will allow for in terms of real-world applications, at 20-30% the complexity. That's just bloody brilliant <3 :)
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase 10 @ Surface Pro 4
https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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antic604
KVRAF
1878 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:56 pm

Silweri wrote:-Importing midi tracks/stacks. Bitwig loads up simple polysynth preset on all tracks that makes it easier to start working on imported tracks. On Live all tracks are silent before you add some synth on them (not a biggie, but helping feature)
You can save project templates or even default device chains in Live (devices that'll show up on a newly created MIDI or audio tracks), to replicate that.
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase 10 @ Surface Pro 4
https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30479 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:03 am

Both have pros and cons. One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs. On the other hand Bitwig is better in that at least it makes it clearer which knobs are being controlled using clear colour cues, wish Live did that, it tends to hide away what the controller is doing. Bitwig also makes it easier to make mapping’s for third party plugins, although it’s not so good that the only way to save these for export is hidden away from the user.

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antic604
KVRAF
1878 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:15 am

aMUSEd wrote:One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs.
Isn't that controller / script dependant though? I asked a friend to modify an Arturia Minilab script so that first 8 knobs control macros in selected device (other 8 are manually assignable) and the pads just below them go through macro pages and through devices in a chain. So it IS possible (and quite easy to do judging by the code).
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase 10 @ Surface Pro 4
https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30479 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:11 am

antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs.
Isn't that controller / script dependant though? I asked a friend to modify an Arturia Minilab script so that first 8 knobs control macros in selected device (other 8 are manually assignable) and the pads just below them go through macro pages and through devices in a chain. So it IS possible (and quite easy to do judging by the code).
I’ve been asking on the Bitwig forum if that was possible but no one responded, if it is I’d like to see the script and to incorporate it into my Komplete Kontrol 2 script (which also has 8 knobs mapped and 8 freely assignable but I’d like to use the buttons to navigate device pages)

thanks

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moss
KVRian
1466 posts since 13 May, 2004

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:23 am

aMUSEd wrote:
antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs.
Isn't that controller / script dependant though? I asked a friend to modify an Arturia Minilab script so that first 8 knobs control macros in selected device (other 8 are manually assignable) and the pads just below them go through macro pages and through devices in a chain. So it IS possible (and quite easy to do judging by the code).
I’ve been asking on the Bitwig forum if that was possible but no one responded, if it is I’d like to see the script and to incorporate it into my Komplete Kontrol 2 script (which also has 8 knobs mapped and 8 freely assignable but I’d like to use the buttons to navigate device pages)

thanks
Sure, that is possible. E.g. Device and bank navigation is supported in all the extensions (scripts) I develop.

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