Bitwig vs. Ableton

Official support for: bitwig.com
User avatar
antic604
KVRian
1362 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:56 am

aMUSEd wrote:
antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs.
Isn't that controller / script dependant though? I asked a friend to modify an Arturia Minilab script so that first 8 knobs control macros in selected device (other 8 are manually assignable) and the pads just below them go through macro pages and through devices in a chain. So it IS possible (and quite easy to do judging by the code).
I’ve been asking on the Bitwig forum if that was possible but no one responded, if it is I’d like to see the script and to incorporate it into my Komplete Kontrol 2 script (which also has 8 knobs mapped and 8 freely assignable but I’d like to use the buttons to navigate device pages)

thanks
Sure, it's this one: https://github.com/Nettsu/minilab-mkII-bitwig
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
melomood
KVRist
322 posts since 15 Oct, 2017 from U.S.

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:11 am

You gotta wonder about someone who joined about a week ago and starts a thread with a list that long & detailed

User avatar
antic604
KVRian
1362 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:01 am

melomood wrote:You gotta wonder about someone who joined about a week ago and starts a thread with a list that long & detailed
Why? They could've been using both Live and Bitwig for years but only now discovered KVR.

Is it mandatory to be on KVR before one starts writing music? ;) :P
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

Kypresso
KVRist
156 posts since 26 Mar, 2014

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:45 am

antic604 wrote: Is it mandatory to be on KVR before one starts writing music? ;) :P
Its the other way around, once you get on KVR you stop making music and just read and post all day long. :dog:

User avatar
antic604
KVRian
1362 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:50 am

Kypresso wrote:
antic604 wrote: Is it mandatory to be on KVR before one starts writing music? ;) :P
Its the other way around, once you get on KVR you stop making music and just read and post all day long. :dog:
Sadly, that's very true :(
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
29803 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:42 am

antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs.
Isn't that controller / script dependant though? I asked a friend to modify an Arturia Minilab script so that first 8 knobs control macros in selected device (other 8 are manually assignable) and the pads just below them go through macro pages and through devices in a chain. So it IS possible (and quite easy to do judging by the code).
I’ve been asking on the Bitwig forum if that was possible but no one responded, if it is I’d like to see the script and to incorporate it into my Komplete Kontrol 2 script (which also has 8 knobs mapped and 8 freely assignable but I’d like to use the buttons to navigate device pages)

thanks
Sure, it's this one: https://github.com/Nettsu/minilab-mkII-bitwig
Thanks - unfortunately I can't make any sense of this, the first half doesn't even seem to be anything to do with the controller and seems to be referring to Github or something? The rest is completely different to the standard controller template I was using, I would not know where to find the bit that codes for page navigation, let alone know how to integrate it into mine (which is based on the generic example script)

this is mine

https://www.dropbox.com/s/748mwedkbzh8o ... s.zip?dl=1

User avatar
antic604
KVRian
1362 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:06 am

aMUSEd wrote:
antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
antic604 wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:One thing I prefer in Live is I can navigate and control an entire device from my hardware, whereas in Bitwig I have to use the mouse to switch between sections if it has more than 8 knobs.
Isn't that controller / script dependant though? I asked a friend to modify an Arturia Minilab script so that first 8 knobs control macros in selected device (other 8 are manually assignable) and the pads just below them go through macro pages and through devices in a chain. So it IS possible (and quite easy to do judging by the code).
I’ve been asking on the Bitwig forum if that was possible but no one responded, if it is I’d like to see the script and to incorporate it into my Komplete Kontrol 2 script (which also has 8 knobs mapped and 8 freely assignable but I’d like to use the buttons to navigate device pages)

thanks
Sure, it's this one: https://github.com/Nettsu/minilab-mkII-bitwig
Thanks - unfortunately I can't make any sense of this, the first half doesn't even seem to be anything to do with the controller and seems to be referring to Github or something? The rest is completely different to the standard controller template I was using, I would not know where to find the bit that codes for page navigation, let alone know how to integrate it into mine (which is based on the generic example script)

this is mine

https://www.dropbox.com/s/748mwedkbzh8o ... s.zip?dl=1
As I understand it, the script at 123 and 124 creates variables that keep an index for currently selected device and remote page, then at 196-209 it just cycles through them once specified pad is hit. AFAIK the guy who wrote this is a professional programmer, so his code is very by-the-books, with explicit declarations, references, flexible options/settings page, etc. The real meat is probably less than 20% :)
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
29803 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:40 am

This is weird, even those parts don't correspond to any other Bitwig syntax I've seen eg this is from 196:

Code: Select all

  <div role="main" class="application-main ">
        <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/SoftwareSourceCode" class="">
    <div id="js-repo-pjax-container" data-pjax-container >
     

  <div class="pagehead repohead instapaper_ignore readability-menu experiment-repo-nav  ">
    <div class="repohead-details-container clearfix container">

      <ul class="pagehead-actions">
The file says it's minilab-mkII.control.js but I wonder if this is actually not a Bitwig script but for something else entirely and they got mixed up?

User avatar
antic604
KVRian
1362 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:07 am

aMUSEd wrote:This is weird, even those parts don't correspond to any other Bitwig syntax I've seen eg this is from 196:

Code: Select all

  <div role="main" class="application-main ">
        <div itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/SoftwareSourceCode" class="">
    <div id="js-repo-pjax-container" data-pjax-container >
     

  <div class="pagehead repohead instapaper_ignore readability-menu experiment-repo-nav  ">
    <div class="repohead-details-container clearfix container">

      <ul class="pagehead-actions">
The file says it's minilab-mkII.control.js but I wonder if this is actually not a Bitwig script but for something else entirely and they got mixed up?
Those are not in the files I've linked, so I'm even more confused than you :D
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
29803 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:36 am

Thought it must have got mixed up, Github served up the wrong file maybe? (even though it has the right filename)

btmybrother
KVRer
1 posts since 18 Feb, 2018

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:49 pm

Please make it so the sampler can read EXS24 format

there are great samples in that format

as well as some other common open formats. like old kontakt samples, old akai samples, soundfonts

that one thing alone would introduce entire catalogs of sounds into the program

or what if you made a simple format - and a separate program that did conversions to your format?

I think it would be really nice if bitwig just read some sample formats. or imported them

Randall P. McMurphy
KVRist
31 posts since 24 May, 2007

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:48 pm

This is getting wildly off topic but could someone slightly tweak the Arturia Minilab mk2 script posted to work with an Akai MPK mini mk2?

The Akai MPK mini mk2 script posted on the Bitwig homepage will not work for me - I get the same error message as the user who posted on March 5, 2017: "jajvax.script.scriptexeption: typeerror:createnoteinputfunction.apply is not a function in MPKminiMkII.js at line number 44"

All I want is a script that allows me to use the pads to move between devices and remote control pages using the pads of the Akai (similar to the Minilab script mentioned above).

Its too bad that this functionality isn't provided with the Bitwig default pads & knobs script, would be useful if they made it 'pads, knobs, device browsing and remote paging' etc. Or better yet some way to create scripts within the program for whatever controller you are trying to set up.

Thanks for the help if anyone is capable.

User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
29803 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:09 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Thought it must have got mixed up, Github served up the wrong file maybe? (even though it has the right filename)
This is annoying, turns out if I try and download it (right click, save as) Github changes the file to this crap, if I just click and open it in the browser it appears to be normal but I need to download it.

M-Prod
KVRist
138 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:33 am

I love bitwig and right now the balance is towards bitwig for me. The browser and arrangement view and the fact that I can view and rearrange my plugins and devices from many views (mixer, details view) is much better than Ableton (once Ableton had the plugins in the mixer view via a adjustment to the options.txt. I asked support about that and the said that was no longer supported).
But I'm not sure it will stay this way. Here are a few things I think Ableton has over bitwig:

Piano roll:
-Filter ("drum roll" view in bitwig, "fold" in Ableton) in bitwig's piano roll does not filter the view to the lanes that contain notes if the device is not the first device in the chain. Filter in in Ableton works flawless.
-In bitwig I cannot lengthen notes with the keyboard.
-In Ableton I can drag my pen to create multiple notes.

Arrangement:
-In bitwig I cannot move clips in arrangement with arrows
-I cannot rename clips in arrangement (only in the inspector panel)
-Although you can resize channels, you cannot make them smaller like in Ableton (I don't own 2.4 yet but this is my assumption from watching some movies).
-Working with automation curves is more intuitive in Ableton. The automatic selection of line segments e.g.when you hover a little to the side.

Mixer:
-Double click to set fader to 0db, move the fader with the arrows (course or fine with shift).

Misc.:
-In ableton, when there are no controllers assigned, push automatically assigns the first encoder to that controller.So any device controller I select is under my control. I use that a lot, very convenient.
-In Ableton I can adjust any control with the keyboard arrows! (that's a BIG omission for me in bitwig)
-Backspace to reset values to default value (quicker than double clicking)
-Drum rack is way better than bitwig. Adjust which keys play which cells, better drag & drop.
-Better drag and drop of audio overall (drop a section of a sample in the arrangement view right onto drum rack).



-There is something to say about the simplicity of Ableton. I have really mastered the shortcuts of Ableton but after over a year of Bitwig I still often press the wrong shortcut keys for the tools (1-4). Also, often you cannot switch tools unless you move your cursor away from e.g. a selection or the top bar in the piano roll.

-I really hate the fact that save as defaults to Untitled every time

I must though say that many plugins have issues in bitwig that they don't have in Ableton.

- On my (very modern powerful MacBook Pro) machine, Ableton is a lot snappier than bitwig.

Additional Pros for bitwig:
- automation per track instead of the global on/off like in Ableton.
- A big and searchable list of last opened projects

Trancit
KVRAF
1744 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Bitwig vs. Ableton

Post Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:52 am

M-Prod wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:33 am
...
Mixer:
-Double click to set fader to 0db, move the fader with the arrows (course or fine with shift).

Misc.:
...
-In Ableton I can adjust any control with the keyboard arrows! (that's a BIG omission for me in bitwig)
...
+1

That´s for me a biggie too... especially where it makes sense to move a control in +-1 increments like the sample selector it´s much more convenient in Ableton...
Would really like to see some kind of control that allows similar workflow...
How about a modulator... just an arrow up and down, which allows stepping through something in +-1 increments... click and hold to move continiously

+ It doesn´t make really sense, that the new selector knob in Sampler works in percentage...
The selector has a clear range of 128 steps and for it to work properly with 128´s, percentage doesn´t make any sense at all...
Same for the envelopes in polysynth... to measure attack, decay and release in percentage is nonsense as the range is unkown and normaly not linear...

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