[Solved]

[jjdejong0]

Also just because something has been discussed means nothing. Have Bitwig responded? Are there any talks about things changing ?

It’s a good job we didn’t have your mentality during WW2. Mr Churchill the Germans are invading!! What the f**k are you talking about? Leave me alone this has been heavily discussed already !!

The fact is everyone seems to have just accepted this so I would counter your argument and say this hasn’t been discussed enough! We need to keep making topics like this, give feedbacks, make petitions and do what we can to communicate that we are unhappy with being exploited by a company we are trying to support for a product we love.

[SLiC]

Again I didn’t mean to cause offence and blanket everyone but this forum seems to be filled with deluded fanboys

Welcome to the 'Bitwig' Forum, most of the people here are happy customers (sorry about that)

[gesslr]

Let’s not start this again. Repetitions of uninformed positions and trolling is just tiresome. Please go read the long extensive thread and come back with an understanding of how it works. If you want to discuss it then, fine. Otherwise rehashing specious arguments is just a waste of time. Cheers mate.

[Enrize]

Yes, I'm a fanboy. I'm really a fan of Bitwig Studio because its f***g amazing. I'm happy to spend 150 bucks each year for a software that allows me to earn x100 times more with my music!

So what?

[excuse me please]

Ridiculous! That said.. what does it cost me to update from v1?

[anttimaatteri]

first
its 150 per year, not month
second
its no subscription, but, well, its something like that , but you arent forced to pay to fully use your old license (without the bugfixes they ship within the yearly payment)
third
theres not much you can do about it other than not paying and waiting til its so much content accumulated that you consider it worth the money.

and last
a bit of a drama queen to make a petition for it, arent you? i mean i was/am pissed too about how it worked out at the end, but i couldnt give a lesser f**k and went straight to ableton live. so why not just jumping to any other daw? or just sitting it out til it fits our expectations and wallet? or both?

[Tj Shredder]

If the op bought version two when it came out, he will be able to get the latest 2.3 version which came out quite a while after one years time... They did deliver bug fixes. When did you buy 2.0?
2.4 is a release with significant more and better features... Other companies would have placed a 3 before the dot to make the customers feel better...
If you wait for .5 or .6 to upgrade you can still use all the features you have now!

[jjdejong0]

I don’t feel it’s a drama queen action. I feel we need to do more to let our voices be heard.

If you are a happy customer and don’t mind paying then that’s fine. But that doesn’t mean what they are doing is right.

I believe currently 2.3 was the last version I could get. So essentially I need to spend 129 to get an update to the sampler...

It’s a shame but I’m gonna finish the one track I currently have in Bitwig and then move back to Ableton. I am sure like me there are probably a lot of people who feel the same and Bitwig will have lost some customers because of this.

I think realistically if your okay with this practice then great good for you. Also maybe you guys could all send me your full details I am sure there are a lot of companies that will pay me top dollar to get them customers who are literally willing to throw money at them no matter what.

[u-u-u]

Yes exactly it is an extremely bad business model. As a consumer what your doing is essentially paying a large upfront sum for an incomplete product. Now as with most software it is never truly finished but what Bitwig is doing I charging you a large amount of money on top of your original purchase simply for patches.(...)

No, as a consumer you don't buy an incomplete product for a high sum.
With the software it's like this: for some it's complete enough for the price and so they buy it.
And I mean, you already bought version 1.0 back then so that seemed complete enough for you for the price.

Now you could pay for the difference between the current(+ a bit more coming during one more year but that you don't know) and your version. So the only question is: is the difference enough for you to buy the update. If it's not - don't buy it. Very simple.

(I mean you could tell the devs how much money you are willing to pay for your current update. Don't know whether they will change their minds then - so your proposal would have to be good.)

[LooFoX]

I don't think that you truly understand the value each updates brings in Bitwig Studio. Just watch how it evolved since the release of 2.0, a LOT has been added in the software.

You are saying that FL Studio has an amazing business model (free update model, difficult to beat...), but what about the updates to the software? Version 20 was such a disappointment... There was just nothing interesting in it but was marketed as the 20th anniversary update ! For a MAC version which was present since 12.9, arrangement selection and ... well nothing more really...

With Bitwig you can jump for the same price whenever you want it. As for me, I was a 1.3 user until lately, when I decided that all the wonderful updates brought by the Bitwig team since 2.0 was enough for me to pay the upgrade plan. And now, maybe I won't be upgrading again (doubt it but who knows) before version 8 in 2025, for 129 Euros... Never think my money will be stolen since I am the one chosing when I want to upgrade.

Talking about Ableton... Well... First you need the Suite version to barely compete with Bitwig, that's 200 bucks more. Standard version is just a joke... thanks Apple business model-like.
Then, when you will upgrade to version 11, you will be charged 299 (I think...) for an update which is in the same league as the 2.3 update of Bitwig.
That's indeed the point of Bitwig model : to release significant and important features along the way, not waiting for big 3/4/5 versions.
If you look at 2.3 and 2.4, and looking at the "major" versions of the competitors, they just can't compete with what Bitwig is offering in each updates. And now we know that minor updates (bugfixes and little improvements) are included even when your upgrade plan ends.

And for the point on "Bitwig should create instruments and sound banks to make money", well just no, I really don't want Bitwig to make instruments and sound banks but work on the workflow and features.
Why new instruments? In future versions the UMS will be opened and we'll be able to create our own instruments and share them in the community, so what's the point.
Why sound banks? There are so many good free sound banks, and almost everyone now owns Komplete or AIEP. And Bitwig continues to bring new soundbanks along the way (Irrupt, the Blofed Piano, the Organs, 606 drum kit, etc...)

In the end, it's just for you to think of your needs as a music producer. If you don't like the Bitwig's workflow and philosophy, then no one's bringing you back, you can go back to Ableton or FL if it suits your needs more.
I've used both of them and as for me I just couldn't go back to them, just because I can create music a so much faster with Bitwig than Ableton or FL.
So if Bitwig's not for you, then don't force yourself to use it .

Best regards,

LooFoX

[gesslr]

Well done.

[JunSev]

and is recommended switch daw if certain companies does stuffs like that towards their costumers, even when some people accept something like this (really weird stuffs we find in this life, it really make you question the destinations of the humanity).

Well, not if you think you get your moneys worth, right?

And I agree - it's really weird seeing how some people's mind work. If you judge a software that is supposed to bolster and channel your creativity, surely a monetary metric is not the best one to do that?! I indeed pity the human race, if we need to attach and compare a $ sign to everything...

Well, other Daws help you being creative (offering even more features) and you really don't have to pay more than 100$ yearly, sometimes just ones and future free updates, one of the best systems. in Addition I can understand the point they need support for further development, but charge 100$ for updates yearly...

But we will not discuss that, I recommend the OP to switch to other daw and don't call the others morons, you see I agree in part with you OP but don't insult your audience.

[u-u-u]

Just one idea for the devs: maybe it would be good if one could pay a fraction of the full update price. And the update period would be extended just for the fraction of the year.

Example: you want to extend your update plan just for one month during that month after your plan expired (e.g. to get an update that came out in this time). So you'd have to pay 1/12 of the maximum update price.

EDIT: Just for explanation: this way if the user couln't wait or need one of the new features immediately s/he wouldn't have to pay a full update price immediately. That would be the same price as a subscription model and is more expensive than the current price model.
But if the user would wait a bit longer an then pay the full update price, s/he could save a lot and get the updates for one more year.

[excuse me please]

@u-u-u

That would almost come down to a monthly fee then. I don't get it; assume I can update any time.

[u-u-u]

@u-u-u
That would almost come down to a monthly fee then. I don't get it; assume I can update any time.

(i added some explanation to it) And yeah, it could be called an 'express update' option. It would be good for users whose update plan just ran out and who are sure that they don't need any more upcoming features during the next year. Yeah, maybe it could be a bit lower than 1/12 of current update price/month.
Yeah but that could bring the devs towards the situation again that they could be tempted to 'hold back' features because the 'express update users' had to pay more then.
So maybe the current price model really is the best.