Bitwig 3.1 Composer-Focused Update: Top-3 Wishes Poll

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jonljacobi
KVRAF
1770 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Sat May 25, 2019 10:11 am

+1 on automation clips.

masterjoe
KVRist
67 posts since 27 Sep, 2004

Post Sat May 25, 2019 1:51 pm

bolba wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:40 am
masterjoe wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:26 am
Automation Clips my friends... Look at this:

Automation Items

Automation Items - Part II

WOW, just WOW!
Reaper is my new reference for Automation Clips.
Want this stuff in Bitwig as well :) :party: :hyper:
What is purpose of these if modulation can do same and even more? And it's in the heart of Bitwig??

Maybe some quick way to capture/convert modulation to automation curve will be nice, though.
They both do the same thing in the very end but there is a difference. Automation Clips allow most precise editing while doing very detailed automations. The reuse of these clips would help because repetition is an important part of any composing. Also both can work at the same time as Bitwig has additive automation - so you can use either or both ways at the same time.

Also it is extremely logical to have automation in clips because you have audio in clips and you have MIDI / Note data in clips. Would you really want to edit MIDI or Audio if it was free-floating on a tape-like track? You wouldn't. But automation is like that. Strange enough that automation has been free floating in a tape-style manner for so long in some sequencers... Reaper combined both ways (track automation and automation clips) in the best possible way IMHO.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20856 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat May 25, 2019 2:45 pm

bolba wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 7:40 am
What is purpose of these if modulation can do same and even more? And it's in the heart of Bitwig??

Maybe some quick way to capture/convert modulation to automation curve will be nice, though.
Cause sometimes I just want to add some automation in a specific place doing a specific thing. Modulation can be a bit convoluted when there are multiple modules to create a shape and I want to tweak the shape in just one place and also there is no visual reference.

I want both!

xbitz
KVRAF
3512 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sat May 25, 2019 10:12 pm

^^^ although it isn't automation clip solution (clips can't be linked) we can still do creative things with using timbres with per-note automation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUCJSis-Te4
devices on different tracks can be controlled nicely with them for ex. from a common source
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"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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tor.helge.skei
KVRist
460 posts since 30 May, 2007

Post Sat May 25, 2019 11:16 pm

+100 on automation items/clips.

masterjoe
KVRist
67 posts since 27 Sep, 2004

Post Sun May 26, 2019 1:31 am

xbitz wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:12 pm
^^^ although it isn't automation clip solution (clips can't be linked) we can still do creative things with using timbres with per-note automation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUCJSis-Te4
devices on different tracks can be controlled nicely with them for ex. from a common source
Sure that's a possible way to fake clip automation. But it's really just sort of a hack or abuse. You don't have clear association of automation curves. You have to do it in a clumsy way.

Because you can drive a nail through a plank using a stone doesn't mean you don't need a hammer anymore ;)

Reaper clearly shows that automation clips and track automation can co-exist very well on the same automation track. I believe this is the best solution and I think Bitwig should have this as well.

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Astralp
KVRAF
2107 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Post Sun May 26, 2019 4:50 am

For me the most important missing features/annoyances are:
  • A sophisticated marker system with assignable shortcuts, shortcuts instantly go to the timeline position instead of waiting for the next bar. Hopefully they could make this flexible enough to achieve the systems used in other DAWs that people are used to. Personally I would like Cubase numpad functionality. The current double click play marker is a serious weak point in workflow and I find it unworkable.
  • Relating to that I would like the full numpad to be seen as a unique entity, currently only the numbers are unique.
  • Midi Input Groups, at the very least the ability to choose what is included in ‘All Inputs.’ Currently it’s painful to use external Sequencers when they always send data to newly created tracks, and the only option for new tracks is to choose a single Midi input. Groups would be ideal, this would allow making collections of inputs for different purposes and as it’s common to have multiple Midi controllers would be very practical these days. VST Midi outputs from plug-ins are also included in All Inputs which is frustrating too.
  • an option to switch off the recording all active clips to tracks in record mode if clips are active, they should respect the track record setting. I don’t use clips much because of this and do not get why it is the default behaviour, I don’t have any use for that behaviour myself.
  • on the topic of shortcuts I think it would be a great thing for Bitwig to have the ability to create shortcut profiles and include major DAW mapping templates. This would add instant appeal to new users coming from different DAWs and possibly be a persuading factor in someone taking the plunge. Most people are used to a certain workflow and shortcuts are a major part of that. It would be a great marketing statement to use.
Whilst I’d like to see some of what others have requested too, these are the things that stop me using Bitwig as a primary DAW. I love everything else about it, it’s elegant, super stable and powerful. But, I’ve found myself going back to Cubase more lately because it’s easier to actually construct a track. I’ve decided to hold off upgrading my license for the time being, even though the Grid looks amazing, these basic features are essential to me. I really hope 3.1 will make the difference and stop me reaching for Cubase which is clunky and awkward in comparison in almost every other way.

xbitz
KVRAF
3512 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Sun May 26, 2019 5:17 am

masterjoe wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 1:31 am
xbitz wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:12 pm
^^^ although it isn't automation clip solution (clips can't be linked) we can still do creative things with using timbres with per-note automation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUCJSis-Te4
devices on different tracks can be controlled nicely with them for ex. from a common source
Sure that's a possible way to fake clip automation. But it's really just sort of a hack or abuse. You don't have clear association of automation curves. You have to do it in a clumsy way.

Because you can drive a nail through a plank using a stone doesn't mean you don't need a hammer anymore ;)

Reaper clearly shows that automation clips and track automation can co-exist very well on the same automation track. I believe this is the best solution and I think Bitwig should have this as well.
I like the clumsy ways :D currently I'm using Byome inside MUX inside Cubase
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zEsLoWf74g
definitely would be happier with a working Bitwig with all the composer features but as I see now it not gonna happen in this decade :roll:
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

jonljacobi
KVRAF
1770 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Sun May 26, 2019 7:15 am

There are already keyboard shortcuts for markers. And if I’m not mistaken, a setting for launch quantization.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20856 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun May 26, 2019 7:22 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:15 am
There are already keyboard shortcuts for markers. And if I’m not mistaken, a setting for launch quantization.
There are keyboard shortcuts to go to existing markers... no shortcut for creating markers...

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Astralp
KVRAF
2107 posts since 25 Feb, 2005 from Ganymede

Post Sun May 26, 2019 7:47 am

jonljacobi wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:15 am
There are already keyboard shortcuts for markers. And if I’m not mistaken, a setting for launch quantization.
ahhh I didn't realise the quantization setting affected the markers, thank for that! However it should have it's own setting, this means you cant have both that and quantization on the clips. They should be 2 completely different entities, not all or nothing.

Yes the Markers exist but there is no shortcut to drop them which is essential. In Cubase you use CTRL plus numpad to drop and the Numpad key to go to it. 1 and 2 are reserved for the left right makers which define the current loop selection, so hitting 1 always takes you there and again can be defined with CTRL+1. You've made me now realise it is actually the left locator I miss the most which is selected loop region start.

You can define a region from selected part with a shortcut, which is great but there is no way to assign a shortcut to getting to the start of it. The play marker doesn't go there when selecting this way besides there isn't a way to assign a shortcut to go to the play marker anyway (unless it's called something else?). Additionally the play marker always follows the clicked timeline location. I find it just gets in the way and would love to be able to disable it completely, it tends to result in behaviour I never want. If that was replaced with a left loop marker it would be so much better, I think it's fairly standard DAW behaviour.

There are different ways of working with Markers, personally I tend to use them as temporary markers and so will just use a few overwriting them as I progress. To use them this way without a shortcut to drop whilst running, they are pretty useless.

Thanks for the Quantization tip though, I'll keep that off from now on.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20856 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun May 26, 2019 9:16 am

Astralp wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:47 am
jonljacobi wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:15 am
There are already keyboard shortcuts for markers. And if I’m not mistaken, a setting for launch quantization.
ahhh I didn't realise the quantization setting affected the markers, thank for that! However it should have it's own setting, this means you cant have both that and quantization on the clips. They should be 2 completely different entities, not all or nothing.

Yes the Markers exist but there is no shortcut to drop them which is essential. In Cubase you use CTRL plus numpad to drop and the Numpad key to go to it. 1 and 2 are reserved for the left right makers which define the current loop selection, so hitting 1 always takes you there and again can be defined with CTRL+1. You've made me now realise it is actually the left locator I miss the most which is selected loop region start.

You can define a region from selected part with a shortcut, which is great but there is no way to assign a shortcut to getting to the start of it. The play marker doesn't go there when selecting this way besides there isn't a way to assign a shortcut to go to the play marker anyway (unless it's called something else?). Additionally the play marker always follows the clicked timeline location. I find it just gets in the way and would love to be able to disable it completely, it tends to result in behaviour I never want. If that was replaced with a left loop marker it would be so much better, I think it's fairly standard DAW behaviour.

There are different ways of working with Markers, personally I tend to use them as temporary markers and so will just use a few overwriting them as I progress. To use them this way without a shortcut to drop whilst running, they are pretty useless.

Thanks for the Quantization tip though, I'll keep that off from now on.
+1

daw.one
KVRist
105 posts since 16 Nov, 2016

Post Sun May 26, 2019 12:05 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:20 am
- retrospective MIDI recording
+1

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Kung VU
KVRist
277 posts since 13 Nov, 2014 from Berlin

Post Sun May 26, 2019 12:06 pm

arrakeen wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:00 am
Kung VU wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:03 am

I'm sure you can do this already, I wanted a way to store my Softube HeartBeat setup with individual MIDI tracks being routed back to Heartbeat and Heartbeat multi-outs all colour coded and named.

I have a master group, I called 'HB Container' and two subgroups, one named 'HB Device' containing the Heartbeat VST and audio multi-out routing (shown in the mixer) and the other called 'HB Midi' where I have all the individual drum MIDI channels routed back to the Heartbeat VST.

The key to making it work (can be dragged as a group into browser clip locations) is that every track must contain a clip, even if just a dummy clip. For example, the Heartbeat device does not need one as I'm routing MIDI from individual tracks, but if it has no clip, it's not included when I drag the grouped 'header' clip into my clips library.

There's even a different icon for grouped clips.

Hope this makes sense!
Hi arrakeen thanks for the tip. I was not aware of the clip requirement and this seems to be a nice work around :)
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antic604
KVRAF
11129 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Sun May 26, 2019 9:25 pm

Astralp wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:47 am
jonljacobi wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 7:15 am
There are already keyboard shortcuts for markers. And if I’m not mistaken, a setting for launch quantization.
ahhh I didn't realise the quantization setting affected the markers, thank for that! However it should have it's own setting, this means you cant have both that and quantization on the clips. They should be 2 completely different entities, not all or nothing.
Each clip has its own launch quantization setting, it's just that by default it's set to 'global' :)
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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