Wish: Performance Layout (Farewell to mainstage or Gig Performer)

[Mathiross]

Hi,
I'm really thankfull for this best DAW we have with Bitwig, I could not imagine something else now !

However, I think a main function still misses: a real and unique performance layout. For performances, I'm using Bitwig as a vst host and If I want now to perform, I would actually be forced to use a software like mainstage on Mac or Gig Performer on PC (and give up to all the bitwig devices) because I have many keyboards on stage, more than 40 differents sounds and the little Instrument Selector device on 1 track only would be not enough to stay clear. Another solution would be to have many computers with many bitwig : expensive and bulky.

Then, to stay in a Grid idea, I've imagined a "Performance Layout Grid".



This image may help you to understand my vision: (bigger version here: https://postimg.cc/vc8xmynh)


I hope you like it, tell me what you think of it and if you would ardently need something like that !

And in the example, thank to a box to tick "follow selection" it would also solve my previous proposition concerning instrument selector. (https://answers.bitwig.com/questions/18 ... rument-via)

[pdxindy]

Nice Idea!! Really creative concept.

Please do email Bitwig with it. They might never see your idea here.

[zengel]

+1 ! Great ! It would be incredible (And with touchscreen ! would be fabulous)

[antic604]

Like the idea, but why are you putting it in The Grid?

It would make more sense - to me, at least - if it was a separate view (or a panel in Clip Launcher view) where you could collect objects from around the project: devices, buttons, sliders, knobs, etc. so that you don't have to switch between tracks to control prameters of many devices / tracks at once.

[llze]

a performance grid as an iPad App to extend desktop Bitwig on macOS Catalina would be really awesome!

[Mathiross]

I started my idea with normal windows that we could have resized and docked together
You can see it here: https://i.postimg.cc/cLqGTM6R/Extended-Rack-Bitwig.png

But finally, 80% of the interface and the display engine is already made in The Grid:
- you can choose, resize and move blocks
- you can undock and show as full screen separate window
- you can zoom in and out on this layout depending on your screen size and the place you require.
- Some of the Grid modules would already be usefull (in particular monitoring module: oscilloscope, vu-metre, XY...)

Then, the only missing things are
-A tab system to switch between songs

more monitoring modules such as what I've imagined:
- Instrument and FX Selector (with an option to select which selector from which track you want this to be a twin) with a more efficient system (the selector should follow the selection !)
- 8 knobs monitoring (same commentary about twin selection option)
- on-screen keyboard panel
- Clip launcher or Drum machine device in order to be able to trigger samples
- A text editor with a size option in order to place some notes and/or lyrics on screen

All that could add a real serious and asked way of working on DAWS.
I hope the idea makes its path !

[x.iso]

Like the idea, but why are you putting it in The Grid?

It would make more sense - to me, at least - if it was a separate view (or a panel in Clip Launcher view) where you could collect objects from around the project: devices, buttons, sliders, knobs, etc. so that you don't have to switch between tracks to control prameters of many devices / tracks at once.

I thought the same thing, and the way it looks (some 'modules' like current Grid modules with I/O points, and others without any I/O points) just tells that it's a mess, not to mention putting crammed touch keyboard up there, while it rightly belongs in it's own panel.

Then, to stay in a Grid idea, I've imagined a "Performance Layout Grid".

I get the idea, and it's a nicely done mock up, but that's not how it should look like. What you want is Interface builder and however much you'll try to simplify it, there will be always a heck of a lot preparations and routing programming needed to set up interface for live gig with several tracks (songs) in mind. However, there's just no way around it and any way to simplify the process would be welcome.

So, the interface builder would have to be a separate panel with interface modules and backend I/O modules to make it all work. Those backend I/O modules would pull anything from the project (like the list of layers in certain track's specific instrument selector device) and control it from the interface.

There is a similar stuff in Usine Hollyhock, but there it's a modular DAW at a core, so any device in a rack (local term for track) is a patch with backend wiring and front end UI (like in Reaktor), but there's an option to chose where it's displayed including 'Interface builder' screen either additionally or exclusively. since any patch can retrieve information or signals from other racks and places in the project, it's possible to build something like on this image from OP. But being like Reaktor, it's not as fast to do as building synths in Grid.

In Bitwig, there's also ways to pull signals from anywhere in the project, so as I said making it a separate panel (maybe as a layout addition to arrange/mix/edit) with frontend/backend separation (also kinda like in FL Studio's Patcher) should be possible to do something comprehensive with control over whole project.

But realistically, I think Bitwig team could actually prioritize working on more traditional arrangement features after v3 release as they supposedly promised, and many waited for years. Grid is a long awaited milestone for them, so I could see them expanding further on that vision after other features are complete.

[Mathiross]

Ok, thanks for the comments.
Good idea for the layout addition to arrange/mix/edit.
I will prepare some new visuals in function of your contributions.
Once it's more convincing, I'll submit the idea to Bitwig directly.

If you want to write more advises here, you're welcome.

[Mathiross]

Hi!
I've made a new presentation of the wish, in order to present it to Bitwig.
I've followed some of your comments. What do you think of it? is it ready to send to the members of Bitwig?

For a big view, click here: https://i.postimg.cc/2k9znzqS/Performan ... Grid-2.png

[stufflin]

Could this idea also make Polygrid more performable? Like Max can have interfaces of patches? Or is it purely an idea to isolate and mix parts from second level devices?

[jonljacobi]

That’s really a great idea. Send it directly to the devs. Personally, I’m hoping comping and grooves, etc first. But to be honest, this seems more up their alley.

[x.iso]

Hi!
I've made a new presentation of the wish, in order to present it to Bitwig.
I've followed some of your comments. What do you think of it? is it ready to send to the members of Bitwig?

For a big view, click here: https://i.postimg.cc/2k9znzqS/Performan ... Grid-2.png

it's better, but still not perfect. for example, selector panels that you propose, how would you picture scrolling them without affecting selected item? In that sense they're not really improvement over existing design. another one, you show idea of 'Send to perform' option, but how would it actually work? chosen item has to be placed somewhere after that action is made, and how would that be decided?
and lastly, there are 'wrench' icons on most 'modules', but no explanation why they should be there if there's inspector panel and what they do.
I assume that setlist is just different layouts or pages, but would that be enough? we need some global snapshot system, but I don't know yet how to make it efficient

[mtelesha]

I do perform with similar needs. I ended up just using Elements as a VST host. https://kushview.net/

If we could get something within Bitwig that would be awesome.

[Mathiross]

Could this idea also make Polygrid more performable? Like Max can have interfaces of patches? Or is it purely an idea to isolate and mix parts from second level devices?

Why not, it's sure it could also bring some shortcut to the grid in order to have a clear interface of what you need.

That’s really a great idea. Send it directly to the devs. Personally, I’m hoping comping and grooves, etc first. But to be honest, this seems more up their alley.

I think this kind of update could help people not to have the need of another software for live performance, (as mainstage on Mac or Gig Performer on PC)

[Mathiross]

Hi X.iso !

Thanks for your help and your comments. I'll try to answer you:

for example, selector panels that you propose, how would you picture scrolling them without affecting selected item?

The idea of this layout page is really to focus on music and not to touch any settings. You would not need to scroll, I've juste imagined that in order to "monitor" which sound in actually selected for which controller. And these new kind of selector panel are just a "mirror" of an existing on somewhere in a track. If you need to scroll and set something, you would have to go the the original one (the one you twined as a monitor)
Have I answered your question? I 'm not sure to have understand perfectly what you wrote.

you show idea of 'Send to perform' option, but how would it actually work?

It could insert it somewhere on the selected "title" (form the set list in the perform layout) and you could after, come and re-organize how you need it (Size, zoom, color?)

I also imagined another way to "send to perform" context menu:
It's actually makable between arrange and mix layout: to drag and drop something. The problem is that you could not control what you drag and drop: only 1 knob? the whole 8 knobs remote window?

chosen item has to be placed somewhere after that action is made, and how would that be decided?

I imagined exactly the same way as in The Grid: drag and drop + little arrows on the border to resize
It's also for that I kept the little lock (like in The Grid): It would freeze the layout settings and make it ready to perform.

and lastly, there are 'wrench' icons on most 'modules', but no explanation why they should be there if there's inspector panel and what they do.

You're right, the inspector panel would be enough to control parameters: zoom, color and other specific option. No really need of the wrench icons.

I assume that setlist is just different layouts or pages, but would that be enough? we need some global snapshot system, but I don't know yet how to make it efficient

I think it could be enough, you could even map "next title" or "previous title" buttons (that I put in the top right corner) on your controllers in order to change title.
If only 1 tab is enough for a project, ok, let's create only 1 tab.
What are you calling "global snapshot system"?